TransAsia Airways Bridge Crash

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Learn something new everyday. There is a flame burning in internal combustion engines...
Turboprops are essentially jet engines with an Airscrew (AKA propeller) attached.

Nary a piston to be seen.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboprop

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I don't know the full details obviously but I also find it a miracle that there weren't mass casualties on the ground. It could have flown into an office block or a school.
 
If the LH flaps had not retracted, I'd expect it would have rolled the other way. It looks like a Vmca event.

It looks (from the video posted) like when the aircraft comes into picture on the left that it's almost wings level albeit nose up attitude.

What's a VMCA event?
 
I don't know the full details obviously but I also find it a miracle that there weren't mass casualties on the ground. It could have flown into an office block or a school.

Yes that's for sure, the areas on either side of the river are very densely populated with high-rise apartment buildings, not to mention the Nangang Software Park buildings and Nangang Exhibition center very close by. If the pilots did intentionally head for the river they definitely contributed to making this incident a lot less tragic than it was. I've also rarely seen that few cars on that elevated highway given the time of day.
 
Yep still learning something new everyday!. But isnt it a turbine driving a propellor rather than a true jet where the energy for forward motion comes from the propellor rather than the turbine's exhaust ?????

They're both jet engines; a turboprop uses the engine to turn a propeller which provides most of the forward thrust, in a turbojet the thrust comes from the engine exhaust.
 
It looks (from the video posted) like when the aircraft comes into picture on the left that it's almost wings level albeit nose up attitude.

What's a VMCA event?

From a quick Google I would assume he meant "V[SUB]mc[SUB]a[/SUB][/SUB]" (Minimum control speed in the take-off configuration, a.k.a. air minimum control speed or minimum control speed in free air) see V speeds. The term and symbol are officially approved by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) and come from the French « vitesse minimale de contrôle en air libre ».

Something to do with takeoff speeds being met I think. I've got a few ideas, but wont speculate as I really have no idea.
 
Vmca is the minimum speed that you can maintain control airborne, with one engine failed. If you fly slowly enough, you will eventually run out of roll control.
 
A friend of mine who flies ATRs for VA says he is at a loss to explain this as they should have been able to fly on one engine without issue.

The pictures I've seen look like the flaps on both sides are retracted.
 
A friend of mine who flies ATRs for VA says he is at a loss to explain this as they should have been able to fly on one engine without issue.

The pictures I've seen look like the flaps on both sides are retracted.

Is the ATR an aircraft reliable enough for you to be a passenger?.
 
Unconfirmed reports the right engine went idle and the left engine got switched off inadvertently??? And then unable to be restarted.

On NBC news tonight: Report that according to the flight data recorder (vision of it being retrieved) there was right engine alarm after about 30 seconds (had gone to idle); 46 secs later, left engine was shut down (apparently by pilot action); re-start attempt unsuccessful; mayday shortly after that.

A media report - make of it what you will.
 
This is an extract from AV Herald

On Feb 6th 2015 Taiwan's ASC reported that the investigation so far determined from flight data and coughpit voice recorders: the aircraft received takeoff clearance at 10:51L, in the initial climb the aircraft was handed off to departure at 10:52:33L. At 10:52:38L at about 1200 feet MSL, 37 seconds after becoming airborne, a master warning activated related to the failure of the right hand engine, at 10:52:43L the left hand engine was throttled back and at 10:53:00L the crew began to discuss engine #1 had stalled. At 10:53:06L the right hand engine (engine #2) auto-feathered. At 10:53:12L a first stall warning occured and ceased at 10:53:18L. At 10:53:19L the crew discussed that engine #1 had already feathered, the fuel supply had already been cut to the engine and decided to attempt a restart of engine #1. Two seconds later another stall warning activated. At 10:53:34L the crew radioed "Mayday! Mayday! Engine flame out!", multiple attempts to restart the engines followed to no avail. At 10:54:34L a second master warning activated, 0.4 seconds later both recorders stopped recording.

Later the day Feb 6th 2015 the ASC also released an English version of the initial release detailing further that when the first master warning activated associated with the right hand engine the crew "called it out", then the left hand engine thrust lever was progressively retarded to flight idle. At 10:53:24L the condition lever was set to fuel shut off position resulting in the shut down of the left hand engine. Following several call outs to restart the left hand engine the parameters suggest the left hand engine was restarted at 10:54:20L, however, at 10:54:34L another master warning sounded, the CVR recorded unidentified sounds and both recorders stopped.

Crash: Transasia AT72 at Taipei on Feb 4th 2015, right engine failed, left engine shut down, aircraft rolled sharply and lost height shortly after takeoff
 
Oh dear, I was really hoping this would turn out to be something like a propellor issue, as that would give a reason for the performance shortfall that did not involve mishandling.

The upshot is that when you have an engine issue (and it does not matter what it is), that dud engine is not important. The important issue is to ensure the aircraft is under control, and on a safe flight path. That may include using extra power on the good engine, but even minor things like identifying the failed engine are unimportant at that early stage. Rudder will be needed, in very large doses, and you DO NOT look to see which engine has failed to work that out. Rudder is applied as needed, by feel.

When the procedures are being carried out, one pilot should be flying the aircraft, and the other carrying out the checklist items. The flying pilot should only become involved if the procedure calls for an action that can't (readily) be reversed. So, a fuel control switch should be confirmed by both. There is still no hurry. The engine is already dead, leaving it turning for a little longer will only make it a bit more dead.

Flying the aircraft is by far the most important activity. Even if no checklist items were carried out, if the aircraft were just flown, most things would allow quite a lot of time before you really need to resolve them. In the RAAF I recall being told that the first item of all checklists should be to reset the clock...it gives you something to do, and does no harm...move on once the brain has properly processed what is happening.

In this instance, once both engines are shut down, it is exceeding unlikely to get a relight, and power, in the time remaining. Pointing the aircraft at a safe(ish) spot on the ground and keeping it under control whilst you glide towards it, would almost certainly have given a better outcome.
 
Oh dear, I was really hoping this would turn out to be something like a propellor issue, as that would give a reason for the performance shortfall that did not involve mishandling.

The upshot is that when you have an engine issue (and it does not matter what it is), that dud engine is not important. The important issue is to ensure the aircraft is under control, and on a safe flight path. That may include using extra power on the good engine, but even minor things like identifying the failed engine are unimportant at that early stage. Rudder will be needed, in very large doses, and you DO NOT look to see which engine has failed to work that out. Rudder is applied as needed, by feel.

When the procedures are being carried out, one pilot should be flying the aircraft, and the other carrying out the checklist items. The flying pilot should only become involved if the procedure calls for an action that can't (readily) be reversed. So, a fuel control switch should be confirmed by both. There is still no hurry. The engine is already dead, leaving it turning for a little longer will only make it a bit more dead.

Flying the aircraft is by far the most important activity. Even if no checklist items were carried out, if the aircraft were just flown, most things would allow quite a lot of time before you really need to resolve them. In the RAAF I recall being told that the first item of all checklists should be to reset the clock...it gives you something to do, and does no harm...move on once the brain has properly processed what is happening.

In this instance, once both engines are shut down, it is exceeding unlikely to get a relight, and power, in the time remaining. Pointing the aircraft at a safe(ish) spot on the ground and keeping it under control whilst you glide towards it, would almost certainly have given a better outcome.
I was going to comment but I believe you have summed it up very well jb747.
 
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