Grammar Discussions

[get me outta here]

Seeing as we are going down this aisle, I remember a bumper sticker in SYD for a museum that said, "No More Cunding Futs".

>

Qld uni had a light racing boat "sharpie, I think?) proudly emblazoned on its polished wooden hull,with "pheasant plucker"

 

[whatmeworry]

Should people just get over grammar?

We talk about words a lot in this area of the paper. We’ve written about mispronunciation, strange neologisms, pet peeves and more. In fact, few topics incite the readership more than an article on poor grammar.
But I’ve come to the conclusion we should stop whingeing and accept the fact proper language is dying. Rather than try to uphold archaic rules about the way we use words, perhaps we should accept our fate and embrace poor use of language?

Read more: The death of grammar and punctuation?
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[Pushka]

Thin edge of the wedge. Remove the rules and the meaning can change with "unintended consequences".

 

[JessicaTam]

Should people just get over grammar?

I have a very strong background working with language. I was parsing sentences in grade 5, and have studied linguistics at university level. Suffice to say I have learnt not to compromise, to use language correctly, and I will continue to encourage others to do the same. Heck, I even use full sentences in text messages.

Language is our main form of communication - we might as well get it right.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I was taught - "yours sincerely" when you have addressed your salutation by name; ie. "Dear John" and "yours faithfully" when addressed "Dear Sir/Madam".

I use "Yours sincerely" sometimes but have avoided "Yours faithfully" for quite some time as it seems to (whether incorrectly or not) carry a somewhat religious connotation...More common usage is now "Best Regards" or "Kind Regards", but I tend to use "Yours sincerely" for those times when a written / signed letter is required.

A bit like robd, I was taught Yours sincerely is used when the recipient is personally known by you (an acquaintance or friend) whereas Yours faithfully is used when you have never met the recipient. For me, that translates to written letters and for emails, pretty much universally I end with Kind Regards.

The letter salutation I struggle with is when addressing a lady I have not met. I don't feel Dear Ma'am is correct (which I feel is too informal) but I shudder to use Dear Madam for fear of a slap in the face if/when I ever do meet her. I usually try to skirt around it by using a name, Dear Mrs Smith or Dear Miss Jones etc, or if I can get away with it Dear Sir/Madam.

others happy to go for just 51%

Hence a shift to competency based assessments. For those who scraped through with 50% is it a valid concern at "passing" them when they perhaps know less than 50% of the subject? What about the 50% they don't know?

I'm slowly reading through the pages of this thread so I apologise if this has been discussed but my sentence above raised one grammatical example that I do frequently struggle with. The use of than and then. I try to work to than being a comparison word and then being a chronological word but at time it does baffle me, I must admit.

Ah yes, another one of my pet hates in engineering. Someone quotes a number or measurement, and there's no units (or the wrong units) specified.

Or the incorrect written form for a SI unit (of which I'm not sure if it is a pet hate of mine or whether I'm a perpetrator :shock. 1000w instead of 1000W. I was taught when the unit was named after a person, than a capital W is correctly used in the unit. A unit not named after a person is written in lower case hence a formula may be P=W/t with power (P) measured in watts (W) which is named after James Watt and work (W) measured in Joules (J) which is named after James Prescott Joule and the time measured in seconds (s) which is simply a unit not named after a person. A shame about the two capital Ws in the same formula though!

This, in my mind, is being confused a bit by the ongoing standardisation undertaken by the Conférence Générale des Poids et Mesures (CGPM) which encourages the use of lower case for negative power prefixes and upper case for positive power prefixes with the unit itself in lower case, so in the case of power to a negative power it would be expressed as μw or mw and power to a positive power expressed as Kw or Mw. I must admit that I find this a bit at odds and I still express both with capitalisation of the SI unit rather than the prefix, as in μW or mW or kW or MW. Am I wrong to do so?

PS, sorry for starting a sentence with a conjunction!

Agreed. But the problem mainly stems from the focus on communication without any regard for grammar. That may be fine in some situations where getting a message across is much more important (e.g. imperative situations), but in other cases it is not acceptable to have a poor standard in either.

This reminds me of a trashy movie I once endured. I cannot remember the name of it (forgettable it was), but it was a tale about a young adult propelled forward in time to good ol' US of A where an average knowledge base was at idiot level. This guy was first arrested for some trivial "crime" (and sentenced to death if I recollect correctly), but eventually became King or President simply because he knew how to grow crops for a starving population. Starving, because decades of mindless TV shows and no credible education had created a nation of intellectually depleted souls, unable to function. Yes it was rubbish, but it made me stop and think (for 5 seconds or so) whether the mindless (and often violent) TV shows of today, coupled with limited value placed on education, could in fact result in a dumbing down of society as a whole.

I've also noticed that Best Regards is now sometimes being shortened to just Best, and by some older and high profile professional people too! I've done a double take on a couple of occasions when I've received e-mails with just Best in a professional environment, from professionals.

I've also had Brgds (presumably Best Regards).

 

[anat0l]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

This reminds me of a trashy movie I once endured. I cannot remember the name of it (forgettable it was), but it was a tale about a young adult propelled forward in time to good ol' US of A where an average knowledge base was at idiot level. This guy was first arrested for some trivial "crime" (and sentenced to death if I recollect correctly), but eventually became King or President simply because he knew how to grow crops for a starving population. Starving, because decades of mindless TV shows and no credible education had created a nation of intellectually depleted souls, unable to function. Yes it was rubbish, but it made me stop and think (for 5 seconds or so) whether the mindless (and often violent) TV shows of today, coupled with limited value placed on education, could in fact result in a dumbing down of society as a whole.

You're looking for this, I presume: Idiocracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or the incorrect written form for a SI unit (of which I'm not sure if it is a pet hate of mine or whether I'm a perpetrator :shock. 1000w instead of 1000W. I was taught when the unit was named after a person, than a capital W is correctly used in the unit. A unit not named after a person is written in lower case hence a formula may be P=W/t with power (P) measured in watts (W) which is named after James Watt and work (W) measured in Joules (J) which is named after James Prescott Joule and the time measured in seconds (s) which is simply a unit not named after a person. A shame about the two capital Ws in the same formula though!

This, in my mind, is being confused a bit by the ongoing standardisation undertaken by the Conférence Générale des Poids et Mesures (CGPM) which encourages the use of lower case for negative power prefixes and upper case for positive power prefixes with the unit itself in lower case, so in the case of power to a negative power it would be expressed as μw or mw and power to a positive power expressed as Kw or Mw. I must admit that I find this a bit at odds and I still express both with capitalisation of the SI unit rather than the prefix, as in μW or mW or kW or MW. Am I wrong to do so?

I would have no idea why CGPM would insist on having little 'w' for microwatt and milliwatt, then big 'W' for kilowatt and megawatt. That just does my head in. As far as I'm concerned, the SI prefix is a modifier for the base unit which does not change, viz. in this case, W or watt.

Having had to teach thermodynamics and the idea of power being work (produced or consumed) per unit time, I loathed using the symbol P for power. It confused my students to no end as they couldn't understand that the difference between W and P is time (t), let alone that power was the same as the more generic and intuitive understanding (for thermodynamics / energy balances) symbol, W-overdot.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I'll tell you all one I always get wrong is affect/effect. For everything I remember about grammar, I can just never remember which is the noun and which the verb. Even if I know there is a difference.

Similarly, with sweat/sweet. I know the difference, but I can never remember which is which. Lack of Phonics capability. I blame Sir Joh, the mad peanut farmer from Kingaroy.

Hey? You're not even a Qlder! How did poor ol' Johannes become involved? Did he have a profound affect/effect on you?

There are more...

whether
weather

....and wether......

It depends upon the weather, whether the wether will wander!

Nup, Gunna is Gunna, not gonna - just listen to it being said in 'Strine ..

I have the urge to listen to an Angels song

RIP Doc........(a sad coincidence)

 

[anat0l]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Hey? You're not even a Qlder! How did poor ol' Johannes become involved? Did he have a profound affect/effect on you?

He used to be a QLDer... definitely had the education from here.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

You wouldn't go to a British (or Australian) doctor for a cheque up...

That's entirely right. You would certainly not use that term. The more correct is to "go to the doctor for a stick up or a hold up". All ends in ones pocket being considerably lighter, no matter which term is used!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

He used to be a QLDer... definitely had the education from here.

Well there you. There's hope for the lad yet!

 

[Shelf]

Someone wrote "Far canal" on the blackboard once. Took us a while to start sniggering uncontrollably.

A former work colleague would proclaim "beef hooked" when angry.

It was both annoying and catchy.

 

[whatmeworry]

Why is it always annoying to me, when I hear basically everybody refer to one of the major's as a "Grand Slam"! Winning one of the four majors is a slam not a bloody grand slam!

Steffi Graff was the last to win a calender year Grand Slam, plus she won a gold medal, which some people refer to as a Golden Grand Slam!

Ok you can have a career Grand Slam and a non calender Grand Slam, but the media and the players keep referring to a slam as a grand slam.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A bit like robd, I was taught Yours sincerely is used when the recipient is personally known by you (an acquaintance or friend) whereas Yours faithfully is used when you have never met the recipient. For me, that translates to written letters and for emails, pretty much universally I end with Kind Regards.



I've also had Brgds (presumably Best Regards).

But then as someone pointed out to me... what sort of other 'regards' can you have. Presumably all 'regards' are well intentioned, so use of 'kind' or 'warm' is superfluous?

 

[get me outta here]

Regards may be malevolent, so maybe that's why people write 'best regards'. Warm regards is for people attempting to ingratiate themselves. Just writing 'regards', is kind of a Mafia sign saying, 'I see you'.

 

[kevrosmith]

Regards may be malevolent, so maybe that's why people write 'best regards'. Warm regards is for people attempting to ingratiate themselves. Just writing 'regards', is kind of a Mafia sign saying, 'I see you'.

I've always wanted to, at least just once, sign-off with:

Retards
kevrosmith

especially if I wanted to be malicious toward the person I was replying , and later claim that it must've been an accidental typo... well, 't' and 'g' are soooo close to each other on the keyboard, aren't they? :mrgreen:

 

[rogerkambah]

Regards may be malevolent, so maybe that's why people write 'best regards'. Warm regards is for people attempting to ingratiate themselves. Just writing 'regards', is kind of a Mafia sign saying, 'I see you'.

I once sent my ex-wife an Xmas card, with warm regards. I wasn't trying to ingratiate myself. It had the opposite effect.

 

[serfty]

Why is it always annoying to me, when I hear basically everybody refer to one of the major's as a "Grand Slam"! Winning one of the four majors is a slam not a bloody grand slam!

Steffi Graff was the last to win a calender year Grand Slam, plus she won a gold medal, which some people refer to as a Golden Grand Slam!

Ok you can have a career Grand Slam and a non calender Grand Slam, but the media and the players keep referring to a slam as a grand slam.

Of course a player might compete in a "Grand Slam" event.

 

[rogerkambah]

Just booked a room at Grand Hyatt Erawan. Their confirmation indicates 'Warmest Regards'. Just how warm are warmest regards?

 

[whatmeworry]

Of course a player might compete in a "Grand Slam" event.

I would reply with it is one of the slams that constitute a Grand Slam.

I guess that the majority of tennis players are from non-English speaking countries, hence the unintentional bad grammar.

I remember when I was chatting with a friend from Germany and she had the term 'ain't"...

 

[medhead]

Hey? You're not even a Qlder! How did poor ol' Johannes become involved? Did he have a profound affect/effect on you?

Am I not a queenslander? That'd be news to some nurses at the RBH many, many years ago.