Eligible flights for status?

[bjaust]

I've done a couple of long haul trips in J so have a few status credits (850) and am thinking about going to WP. On my last trip, I checked that the tickets were booked with a VA flight number even though they were on EY metal for part of the trip, as I understood that these would count as eligible flights. The T&Cs say:

"Eligible Sector means a flight journey from an origin to a destination:​

(a) that has been flown;
(b) that has been purchased using cash or credit;
(c) that has not been purchased in whole or in part using Points; and
(d) where Virgin Australia is the marketing carrier (This means that the flight number starts with a DJ or VA prefix)."

And

"6.22 When a Member takes a flight with a flight number beginning with VA that includes a connecting flight(s) on the same itinerary, this is considered two Eligible Sectors. For example, Brisbane to London, via Abu Dhabi is two Eligible Sectors"

​

Unfortunately, when I returned I realised that the only thing showing up as eligible flights were those on VA metal:shock:. I rang the velocity folks to get it corrected, sent them my itinerary showing that they were booked with VA flight numbers, but haven't heard anything back (despite a follow up email a week later). I tend to fly mostly long haul and am unlikely to get 8 flights on virgin metal if Velocity don't honor the VA flight numbers as eligible flights (though you never know!). Any advice?

 

[cssaus]

I've done a couple of long haul trips in J so have a few status credits (850) and am thinking about going to WP. On my last trip, I checked that the tickets were booked with a VA flight number even though they were on EY metal for part of the trip, as I understood that these would count as eligible flights. The T&Cs say:

"Eligible Sector means a flight journey from an origin to a destination:​

(a) that has been flown;
(b) that has been purchased using cash or credit;
(c) that has not been purchased in whole or in part using Points; and
(d) where Virgin Australia is the marketing carrier (This means that the flight number starts with a DJ or VA prefix)."

And

"6.22 When a Member takes a flight with a flight number beginning with VA that includes a connecting flight(s) on the same itinerary, this is considered two Eligible Sectors. For example, Brisbane to London, via Abu Dhabi is two Eligible Sectors"

​

Unfortunately, when I returned I realised that the only thing showing up as eligible flights were those on VA metal:shock:. I rang the velocity folks to get it corrected, sent them my itinerary showing that they were booked with VA flight numbers, but haven't heard anything back (despite a follow up email a week later). I tend to fly mostly long haul and am unlikely to get 8 flights on virgin metal if Velocity don't honor the VA flight numbers as eligible flights (though you never know!). Any advice?

No advice but I will be interesting to hear the outcome.

I'm facing a similar situation having flown on VA6513 from LAX to JFK, a flight operated by DL. My points and status credits haven't posted yet even after 14 days and I will be contacting Velocity tomorrow. I know there's not going to be a problem but what I will be ensuring is that the flight counts as an "Eligible Sector" for the purposes of requalifying for Platinum status. The definition as per your quote makes no exclusion for VA flights operated by partner carriers.

 

[iambents]

I've got the same scenario - flew J on VA ticket and VA flight numbers on EY metal - and points have been allocated according to the EY table and no 'eligible sectors' credited. Query is with Velocity - but I'm hoping/assuming is just backend problems with the move to start assessing eligible sectors - made worse by the fact that I actually bought the ticket with VA despite being marginally more expensive than buying direct with EY just to ensure (based on the T&Cs) that I qualified as Platinum.

 

[bullerdude]

I've got the same scenario - flew J on VA ticket and VA flight numbers on EY metal - and points have been allocated according to the EY table and no 'eligible sectors' credited. Query is with Velocity - but I'm hoping/assuming is just backend problems with the move to start assessing eligible sectors - made worse by the fact that I actually bought the ticket with VA despite being marginally more expensive than buying direct with EY just to ensure (based on the T&Cs) that I qualified as Platinum.

I had this happen to me after a return J trip to London which was operated by Etihad but purchased as a VA flight. After, some polite but to-the-point emails to to Virgin, it was discovered that the current velocity system in not configured and/or not capable of correctly assessing partner flights that are purchased and ticketed as VA.

I can confirm that if you flight is ticketed as VA then it is should earn points as listed in the Virgin Long Haul points table and be eligible to count towards your sectors flown - regardless of which partner operates the flight. I have emails from Virgin confirming this it how it should work.

The velocity service center will be able to allocate you the correct number of points and fix your account - although you might need to go through a supervisor as not all the call center staff know about this issue.

 

[pblackie]

Just completed a VA ticketed flight from LHR-SYD. LHR-AUH was Etihad metal and AUH-SYD was VA, have received status credits for both sectors.

 

[medhead]

Just completed a VA ticketed flight from LHR-SYD. LHR-AUH was Etihad metal and AUH-SYD was VA, have received status credits for both sectors.

Where they counted as eligible flights?


Sent from the Throne

 

[pblackie]

I believe the VA AUH-SYD sector was but I have just ticked over to Plat so the eligable sectors have reset to zero

 

[iambents]

Just completed a VA ticketed flight from LHR-SYD. LHR-AUH was Etihad metal and AUH-SYD was VA, have received status credits for both sectors.

Yeah - I have also received status credits my EY metal legs - just no credit for them as 'eligible flights' and the points were allocated per the Etihad points table rather than the VA points table. pblackie - you might want to check your point allocation - you might be getting ripped off.

 

[cssaus]

If you feel you've been ripped-off with not being credited with an eligible sector, contact Velocity and refer them to the following link:

https://www.velocityrewards.com.au/content/ProgramBenefits/TermsConditions/index.htm

and then scroll down the list of definitions until you reach "Eligible Sectors" where it states:

Eligible Sector means a flight journey from an origin to a destination:


(a) that has been flown;
(b) that has been purchased using cash or credit;
(c) that has not been purchased in whole or in part using Points; and
(d) where Virgin Australia is the marketing carrier (This means that the flight number starts with a DJ or VA prefix).

By their own rules you're entitled to an eligible sector if you bought your ticket with Virgin Australian and have a Virgin ticket number and flown a flight that has a VA flight number.

I put a claim in today for missing miles for a VA flight that was operated by Delta and have specifically requested the miles, status credits and eligible sector to be credited to my account.

 

[bjaust]

A short update. I rang yesterday to follow it up. After a bit of discussion about the meaning of (d) in the definition of an "Eligible Sector" (they were interpreting it to mean VA equipment AND a VA flight number) I was told they would have another look at it and ring me back. I haven't heard anything from them today.

As an aside - if they really do mean VA metal and VA flight number then getting 8 eligible sectors for platinum just off long haul is difficult. A roundtrip MEL-JFK on Qantas is 4 eligible flights, is it not? The VA equivalent would only be 2 (as the 2 flights LAX-JFK/EWR etc would be codeshares), and a look at the route map suggests that might be the same for LHR, CDG etc.

 

[Fruitcake]

A short update. I rang yesterday to follow it up. After a bit of discussion about the meaning of (d) in the definition of an "Eligible Sector" (they were interpreting it to mean VA equipment AND a VA flight number) I was told they would have another look at it and ring me back. I haven't heard anything from them today.

Does the team drafting Velocity terms and conditions know how to speak and write in English? For the written terms and conditions to be so different from what they claim is the "intent" is idiotic. It's the exactly the same as the companion gold / companion platinum status debacle - in that case, at least they honoured their mistake.

 

[bjaust]

Does the team drafting Velocity terms and conditions know how to speak and write in English? For the written terms and conditions to be so different from what they claim is the "intent" is idiotic. It's the exactly the same as the companion gold / companion platinum status debacle - in that case, at least they honoured their mistake.

I wonder if there's a sort of twisted logic to it. I'm not an airline guru but is it possible that they are trying to draw a distinction between the real flight number and the code share flight number? Perhaps . For example, VA 7379 (Abu Dhabi to Bahrain) is actually EY 379 - so wouldn't be an eligible sector. If so, this is a complicated and unhelpful way to say it. Although, if that is the case, the example they give in para 6.22 ("When a Member takes a flight with a flight number beginning with VA that includes a connecting flight(s) on the same itinerary, this is considered two Eligible Sectors. For example, Brisbane to London, via Abu Dhabi is two Eligible Sectors") is odd as I can't find a VA metal flight from Abu Dhabi to London.

 

[Mwenenzi]

I wonder if there's a sort of twisted logic to it. I'm not an airline guru but is it possible that they are trying to draw a distinction between the real flight number and the code share flight number?

as above
(d) where Virgin Australia is the marketing carrier (This means that the flight number starts with a DJ or VA prefix).
If it is a VA flight number it is VA marketed: no other interpretation possible.
There is no mention about the carrier in the rule as above.

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Time to given them some work !

 

[pythonisman]

You could take it either way really.
The "marketing carrier" could be someone's idea of what equates to 'metal', i.e. VA marketing VA1, also sold as DL6619 or whatever it's sold as.

In the way it's written, they should roll over and give you what you think you earned, in my opinion. I (if I were DJ/VA) would then be getting onto changing the T&Cs of 'eligible sectors' ASAP to reflect that it only meant VA metal, which would be trivial.

Pain the spirit of what they're going for, that would be what I assume they meant.

 

[iambents]

Hi BJ - I actually had a call from Virgin this morning (European time) to say in my case they agreed that my EY metal legs on a VA ticket/flight number were eligible sectors and should have been credited points on the VA table rather than the EY table (as was done). They have since removed the original points/status credits and told me to expect the correction to be posted Monday. I did all my liaising with them via email (since I am not calling from Belgium). Will confirm once has been actually posted - but the T&Cs are very clear - and as you point out - their international strategy of replying on partners metal would mean Velocity is pretty useless if you travel mostly internationally and they only count VA metal flights. I don't think that is their intent - but suspect their new online systems currently under development will help them catch up with what the T&Cs actually say. In the meantime need to keep watch on what is credited [not entirely sure we should have to do that].

Another things to help with argument:

Virgin uses very specific language when they mean VA metal (this quote from the conditions of the recent double points offer):

"This offer is valid for members who travel on eligible Virgin Australia marketed and operated flights"

 

[Deleted member 29185]

their international strategy of replying on partners metal would mean Velocity is pretty useless if you travel mostly internationally and they only count VA metal flights. I don't think that is their intent..........

"This offer is valid for members who travel on eligible Virgin Australia marketed and operated flights"

I think these two comments are very sensible. It would appear this is yet another case of the pax knowing their benefits better than the airline.........

What amazes me is that VA seem to be refusing to spend any of their profits to employ proof readers for their marketing (including their web site) and instaed seem to be relying on their customers to do that for them........unbelievable is the only thing that comes to mind. JB may have lost sight of the trees because of the forrest!

Try sending them an invoice for your services as a proof reader!

 

[cssaus]

You could take it either way really.
The "marketing carrier" could be someone's idea of what equates to 'metal', i.e. VA marketing VA1, also sold as DL6619 or whatever it's sold as.

In the way it's written, they should roll over and give you what you think you earned, in my opinion. I (if I were DJ/VA) would then be getting onto changing the T&Cs of 'eligible sectors' ASAP to reflect that it only meant VA metal, which would be trivial.

Pain the spirit of what they're going for, that would be what I assume they meant.

I disagree that you could take it either way.

If VA wanted to specifically exclude code-share flights on partner airlines then to avoid the confusion and ambiguity then in point (d) of their T&C's they should have said something like "marketing and operating carrier".

The way the rules at the moment, if VA (the marketing carrier) sell you a flight on a partner airline with a VA flight number then it counts as an eligible sector, no other way to interpret it.

If interested, the following link has a good definition of what is a "marketing carrier" and what is an "Operating Carrier":

Codeshare agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To quote from the above link:

"Under a code sharing agreement, the airline that actually operates the flight (the one providing the plane, the crew and the ground handling services) is called the operating carrier. The company or companies that sell tickets for that flight but do not actually operate it are called marketing carriers."

 

[markis10]

What amazes me is that VA seem to be refusing to spend any of their profits to employ proof readers for their marketing (including their web site) and instaed seem to be relying on their customers to do that for them........unbelievable is the only thing that comes to mind. JB may have lost sight of the trees because of the forrest!

Try sending them an invoice for your services as a proof reader!

Any company can have oversights and mistakes, it's not related to their profit, marketing department or trees in a Forrest, as an example a far more established company with a much higher turnover and profit published this little doozy overnight:

Draw	Entries Open 10:00AM AEST	Entries Close 23:59AM AEST	Draw date/time 9:00AM AEST

I think I might get better pay as a proof reader working for woolies. It's just a sign a company employees humans, nothing to do with vision or direction which is where the forests play a part (unless were talking Gunns).

 

[cssaus]

A short update. I rang yesterday to follow it up. After a bit of discussion about the meaning of (d) in the definition of an "Eligible Sector" (they were interpreting it to mean VA equipment AND a VA flight number) I was told they would have another look at it and ring me back. I haven't heard anything from them today.

As an aside - if they really do mean VA metal and VA flight number then getting 8 eligible sectors for platinum just off long haul is difficult. A roundtrip MEL-JFK on Qantas is 4 eligible flights, is it not? The VA equivalent would only be 2 (as the 2 flights LAX-JFK/EWR etc would be codeshares), and a look at the route map suggests that might be the same for LHR, CDG etc.

If VA were to change the definition of an "eligible sector" it would certainly be a bias against long-haul travellers on VA purchased tickets compared to QF, especially those shelling out for premium J class tickets.

 

[cssaus]

If interested, the following link has a good definition of what is a "marketing carrier" and what is an "Operating Carrier":

Codeshare agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To quote from the above link:

"Under a code sharing agreement, the airline that actually operates the flight (the one providing the plane, the crew and the ground handling services) is called the operating carrier. The company or companies that sell tickets for that flight but do not actually operate it are called marketing carriers."

As is often stated "Google is your friend".

Did some more digging around and happened to find a page on the IATA web site that has a link to "Passenger Glossary of Terms". This document contains a definition of all the terms used in the airline industry. The page is:

Passenger Glossary of Terms

Look on the right hand side of the page under "Tools". It's actually an Excel spreadsheet and you can reply cancel if a pop-up appears about wanting to enter a userid and password for IATA.

If stuck trying to access the page, the IATA definition of a Marketing Carrier is "The carrier that sells with its own code as part of a code-share agreement on a flight actually operated by another carrier."

The IATA definition of an Operating Carrier is "The Carrier that holds the Air Operator's Certificate for the aircraft used for that flight. The airline actually providing carriage or other services incidental to such air carriage. The Operating Carrier may be different from the Marketing Carrier in situations where bilateral agreements exist, e.g. code share agreement."

I have a copy of Passenger Glossary of Terms" as a PDF file if anyone needs it for their "discussions" with Virgin Australia