WOOLWOTHS EZY MASTERCARD. IS THIS ANY GOOD?

[trader144]

Business use

I read in the terms and conditions #11 Business purchases, that purchases for busiiness purposes are not allowed. I am curious if anyone has been picked up on this before

 

[PaulZ]

Re: Business use

I read in the terms and conditions #11 Business purchases, that purchases for busiiness purposes are not allowed. I am curious if anyone has been picked up on this before

I have had this card for 5 months now.

In that time i have made purchases in excess of $85,000.

I have not been queried as to the nature of my purchases.

Clearly a significant proportion of this expenditure is related to my business.

Therefore, i don't believe they are interested in enforcing this term/condition.

 

[oz_mark]

Re: Business use

I read in the terms and conditions #11 Business purchases, that purchases for busiiness purposes are not allowed. I am curious if anyone has been picked up on this before

I have had this card for 5 months now.

In that time i have made purchases in excess of $85,000.

I have not been queried as to the nature of my purchases.

Clearly a significant proportion of this expenditure is related to my business.

Therefore, i don't believe they are interested in enforcing this term/condition.

I've always had this belief that the conditions are in there if they decide to get ornery with you.

 

[trader144]

Thanks guys, thought that would be the case but just wanted to make sure

 

[Sheriff]

In last 24 months I have made four $40,000.00 and five $19,000.00 business transactions on my Woolworths Ezy MasterCard.

The merchant details appearing on the statement clearly indicates the nature of the purchases are business related.

Transactions of this nature stick out like a sore thumb on your statement, so I too believe they’re not serious about enforcing this part of the terms and conditons. Past experiences lead me to believe that the CBA is also not interested in excercising. Having said that, the terms and conditions exist to be excercised at the bank’s discretion.

 

[Mahtoh]

Looks like you could also mount a good case that they have waived therir entitlement to rely on this clause.

 

[Sheriff]

Absolutely!

 

[straitman]

Looks like you could also mount a good case that they have waived therir entitlement to rely on this clause.

Sheriff,
When and if you decide to argue this with them would you let me know so I'm able to watch. You're statement may be correct however I'm sure it would/could quickly come down to them out dollaring you with lawyers :!:

 

[Sheriff]

When and if you decide to argue this with them would you let me know so I'm able to watch. You're statement may be correct however I'm sure it would/could quickly come down to them out dollaring you with lawyers

Bill,
If a situation arises where the CBA, who is the credit provider in this case, accuses me of using my credit card for business transactions, I believe it is very unlikely that this will lead to a legal confrontation with CBA lawyers.

According to clause#7 of Woolworths Ezy MasterCard terms and Conditions of Use dated January 2003 “you can only use it for your own personal, domestic or household purposes”.

If a credit cardholder were in default under this Condition of Use the credit provider in most circumstances would give you notice in writing demanding you to fix the default.

Then if you don’t fix the default in the time allowed by the notice, the most likely action would be. Termination of your credit card contract, cancellation of all the points you accumulated through business purchases and you would be required to reimburse the bank the costs of awards already issued.

The banks are aware that the majority of people are using their credit cards to make business transactions, but for the bank to determine whether a particular transaction is personal, domestic, household or business, may be difficult or impossible to prove, costly and not worth the exercise. For example, if a person purchases a Staedtler HB pencil and a ream of Reflex paper from OfficeWorks. Would the bank consider this transaction a personal or business purchase? The bank really has no way of knowing whether the transaction is personal or business. For the bank to enforce clause#7 of the Conditions of Use it has to first prove the transaction was a business purchase.

In addition, the bank reserves the right where it believes that a business transaction has been made using a personal credit card to exercise its discretion in enforcement of clause#7 and #31 of the terms and Conditions of Use.

People place to much emphasis on the bank's Terms and Conditions, they're important, but nowhere near as important as a good business relationship.



Sheriff

 

[straitman]

When and if you decide to argue this with them would you let me know so I'm able to watch. You're statement may be correct however I'm sure it would/could quickly come down to them out dollaring you with lawyers

Bill,
If a situation arises where the CBA, who is the credit provider in this case, accuses me of using my credit card for business transactions, I believe it is very unlikely that this will lead to a legal confrontation with CBA lawyers.

According to clause#7 of Woolworths Ezy MasterCard terms and Conditions of Use dated January 2003 “you can only use it for your own personal, domestic or household purposes”.

If a credit cardholder were in default under this Condition of Use the credit provider in most circumstances would give you notice in writing demanding you to fix the default.

Then if you don’t fix the default in the time allowed by the notice, the most likely action would be. Termination of your credit card contract, cancellation of all the points you accumulated through business purchases and you would be required to reimburse the bank the costs of awards already issued.

The banks are aware that the majority of people are using their credit cards to make business transactions, but for the bank to determine whether a particular transaction is personal, domestic, household or business, may be difficult or impossible to prove, costly and not worth the exercise. For example, if a person purchases a Staedtler HB pencil and a ream of Reflex paper from OfficeWorks. Would the bank consider this transaction a personal or business purchase? The bank really has no way of knowing whether the transaction is personal or business. For the bank to enforce clause#7 of the Conditions of Use it has to first prove the transaction was a business purchase.

In addition, the bank reserves the right where it believes that a business transaction has been made using a personal credit card to exercise its discretion in enforcement of clause#7 and #31 of the terms and Conditions of Use.

People place to much emphasis on the bank's Terms and Conditions, they're important, but nowhere near as important as a good business relationship.



Sheriff

Absolutely wonderful in theory. I have however seen big business (all to frequently) chew up and spit out individuals when it suits them. Get up their nose once to often and they'll lose their sense of humour and then logic and cost will also get thrown away.

Having said all that I was refering to the comments from Mahtoh who wrote:

Looks like you could also mount a good case that they have waived therir entitlement to rely on this clause.

 

[one9]

I said in another post my experience with CBA and business transactions on credit card.

I made a complaint regarding my Platinum credit card and they wrote back to me rejecting my complaint, and then pointing out, by the way, we notice it appears that you are using your credit card for business purchases. as per our conditions.... .

then they went into a new paragraph and said something like, if you dont agree with our response to your complaint feel free to let us know and we will look into it further. we will also look further into your transactions which appear to be for business purchases.

basically they threated me that if i continued with the complaint, then they may retaliate by looking at my transactions.

I did not continue with my complaint, and nothing happened. This was a while ago now, and I continued to use the card until January this year, when they introduced points capping. Now I use the woolworths mastercard for things i cant put on amex.

btw: i was spending around $80,000 - $200,000 monthly on the CBA Platinum card. nearly 100% business purchases.

 

[one9]

I should have actually answered the original question.

In my limited experience of the woolworths mastercard, I have found it to be good. As it is one of the very few (if any other) Visa/Mastercard with unlimited points earning, I was left with very little choice.

I would prefer to pay the extra money to have kept the Platinum CBA card, but with points capping, it is no longer useful.

The only negative things with the CBA Mastercard I have found:
* Rewards are very basic. If you click on the rewards logo on Internet banking, it just takes you to a generic site with information on Ezybanking. It doesn't provide your points balance. Futher I believe there is very limited reward choice. Basically, woolworths voucher or transfer to qantas. If you are like me and earn a lot more points then you can redeem with Qantas frequent flyer, then this may be a disadvantage.

* Card looks cough. I really don't like the look of the card. It looks like a card for a teenager.

* You have to deal with Ezybanking staff of CBA, which don't seem to be as good as CBA staff.

* Uncertainty. Woolworths made an announcement recently about wanting to end their relationship early with CBA. Thus we don't know how long this card will last. I am sick of changing cards due to introduction of points capping.

 

[oz_mark]

I did not continue with my complaint, and nothing happened. This was a while ago now, and I continued to use the card until January this year, when they introduced points capping. Now I use the woolworths mastercard for things i cant put on amex.

btw: i was spending around $80,000 - $200,000 monthly on the CBA Platinum card. nearly 100% business purchases.

I think that point capping is their way of dealing with business transactions without really dealing with them. Except in a few cases, I would think that most personal expediture on a card would be under the saps they have imposed.

 

[Sheriff]

Absolutely wonderful in theory. I have however seen big business (all to frequently) chew up and spit out individuals when it suits them. Get up their nose once to often and they'll lose their sense of humour and then logic and cost will also get thrown away.

Having said all that I was refering to the comments from Mahtoh who wrote

I agree.

I said in another post my experience with CBA and business transactions on credit card.

I made a complaint regarding my Platinum credit card and they wrote back to me rejecting my complaint, and then pointing out, by the way, we notice it appears that you are using your credit card for business purchases. as per our conditions.... .

then they went into a new paragraph and said something like, if you dont agree with our response to your complaint feel free to let us know and we will look into it further. we will also look further into your transactions which appear to be for business purchases.

basically they threated me that if i continued with the complaint, then they may retaliate by looking at my transactions.

I did not continue with my complaint, and nothing happened. This was a while ago now, and I continued to use the card until January this year, when they introduced points capping. Now I use the woolworths mastercard for things i cant put on amex.

btw: i was spending around $80,000 - $200,000 monthly on the CBA Platinum card. nearly 100% business purchases.

It appears that the CBA didn’t want to entertain your complaint while you were screwing them over for $80,000 - $200,000 business purchases every month on your CBA Platinum credit card, so they rejected your complaint and pointed out that you were in default of your credit card contract. Then they threatened to screw you back with the book if you continue to waste their time and resources with your frivolous complaint. This was the best outcome for you, on the other hand they could have terminated your credit card contract, canceled all the points you accumulated through business purchases, and forced you to reimburse them for the costs of awards already issued.



Regards

Sheriff

 

[DPG]

Just like other sad people have some inner need to impress with all their FF qualifications

While I understand where you are coming from Observer, the fact is that this is the "Frequent Flyer" forum and while I don't go sprouting my status levels, I can understand why some might and it's probably appropriate.

Sheriff on the otherhand seems to think it is the "I'm richer than you - nah nah na nah nah" forum. :roll:

I do not think that many people on here are trying to impress people with their FF Status! I think that most people on here are just trying to help each other out...

This feeling of community, I believe is a great thing!

D P G

 

[one9]

It appears that the CBA didn’t want to entertain your complaint while you were screwing them over for $80,000 - $200,000 business purchases every month on your CBA Platinum credit card, so they rejected your complaint and pointed out that you were in default of your credit card contract. Then they threatened to screw you back with the book if you continue to waste their time and resources with your frivolous complaint. This was the best outcome for you, on the other hand they could have terminated your credit card contract, canceled all the points you accumulated through business purchases, and forced you to reimburse them for the costs of awards already issued.

Regards

Sheriff

I am not screwing them over. They are still making money. Just only making a little. The banks like revolvers who dont pay off their debt and who pay interest. they dont like transactors anywhere near as much. But the bank is still earning profit of 0.1 or 0.2 or 0.3 or 0.4 of a per cent or so for my purchases after the cost of the rewards. so i am a better customer than someone who has a low annual fee credit card and who spends $10 a month and who pays off their bill every month.

Whether or not my complaint was frivolous is not something you would know. considering I am a person to extremely rarely complain officially it may not have been.

And as I have suggested to others to be safe you should transfer your points regulary accross to your frequent flyer membership or spend them. and as my accountant has said before, it would be extremely difficult for a bank to actually prove with certainty whether or not purchases were of a business nature. this is possibly why banks do not seem to enforce such rule. or maybe they know if they do, the high spenders will simply go elsewhere.

 

[Sheriff]

I am not screwing them over. They are still making money. Just only making a little. The banks like revolvers who dont pay off their debt and who pay interest. they dont like transactors anywhere near as much. But the bank is still earning profit of 0.1 or 0.2 or 0.3 or 0.4 of a per cent or so for my purchases after the cost of the rewards. so i am a better customer than someone who has a low annual fee credit card and who spends $10 a month and who pays off their bill every month.

Whether or not my complaint was frivolous is not something you would know. considering I am a person to extremely rarely complain officially it may not have been.

And as I have suggested to others to be safe you should transfer your points regulary accross to your frequent flyer membership or spend them. and as my accountant has said before, it would be extremely difficult for a bank to actually prove with certainty whether or not purchases were of a business nature. this is possibly why banks do not seem to enforce such rule. or maybe they know if they do, the high spenders will simply go elsewhere.

According to your credit card’s terms and Conditions of Use you can only use credit card for your own personal; domestic or household purposes and if you do not keep to this Condition of Use you are in default.

By your own admission you said you were using your personal credit card for $80,000-$200,000 business purchases every month, so you’re not adhering to your credit card’s Conditions of Use, therefore you’re in default under your credit contract.

Even if the bank is making a profit from you after the cost of the rewards, you are screwing them in a sense because you’re not using your credit card and the rewards program for the purpose it was designed.

The credit card and the rewards program is designed for personal use only, rewards points should not be issued for business purchases.

Please inform your accountant that regular redemption or transfer of reward points to a frequent flyer program does not offer you any protection because should the bank become aware that business purchases have been made and rewards points have been issued and that redemption of the rewards has already taken place, the bank reserves the right to recover the costs of the awards(s) and any other associated recovery of such costs.

Your right I don’t know anything about your complaint because you failed to mention the details of your complaint , probably because it wasn’t a valid complaint.

So if it wasn’t a valid complaint worth mentioning, it must have been a frivolous groundless complaint, that's why the bank emphatically rejected the complaint.


Regards
Sheriff

 

[deltanovember]

I am going to chime in with my experience regarding the "business transactions" clause which regrettably in my case the bank decided to enforce. I do not wish to get into too much detail but suffice to say the case involved a Platinum card and the amounts involved were more that the amounts mentioned thus far in this thread. Every single transaction was for personal use and I had ample evidence to demonstrate this to be true.

At the time, I thought the onus was on the bank to prove that the transactions were for business purposes, something that would prove impossible since there was not a single business transaction in the entire history of the card. Alas it appears that the bank is able to unilaterally decide what does and what does not constitute a business transaction. It appears that the size of the transaction plays a much more prominent role than the nature of the transaction. After several weeks of deliberation, the bank decided to confiscate existing points and cancel the credit card. They did not seek reimbursement for points already redeemed. I had a very strong case to present to the banking ombudsman but I decided that it was not worth expending any additional resources to launch an appeal.

 

[Chicken]

So does that mean we need to transfer our points to some FF program every month, to prevent the bank from changing their minds?

 

[JohnK]

So does that mean we need to transfer our points to some FF program every month, to prevent the bank from changing their minds?

I don't have the right answer but sometimes points are better left in reward accounts with banks rather than a FF program.

Take Qantas changes to FF program May 2005. Most people say that FF points were de-valued by as much 25%.

Don't know about Commonwealth but I keep my credit card reward points with Amex in their reward account until such time I need to use them. Make up your own mind.