Window shades

[MEL_Traveller]

No one though thinks of the effect of not having exposure to natural light and the effect of that on jet lag.No natural light for 14 hours Transpac and your Cicadian rhythms are shot.

The OP didn’t mention that.

Jet lag doesn’t affect everyone in the same way.

 

[Ade]

I was almost thrown off a plane for refusing to lower my window shade at 3:00 in the afternoon on a Cathay flight out of Adelaide. I chose a window seat specifically so I can see the scenery. However the staff asked me to close the shade and when I politely refused I was abused by other passengers. Is this the new norm ? feed the passengers then expect them to sleep, when it's still daylight?

I'd agree with you on this and I believe that it's well within your rights to leave the window shade open, if you enjoy the view.

Personally, I'd like to close the shades as soon as I'm allowed to do so on a daylight flight. For me, it's just either too bright or the seat gets too hot, personal preference, nothing more. And if I'm in the aisle or middle and the person on the window seat preferred to have the blinds up, I'm ok with it too.

And for those passengers whose sleep is interrupted, they might use an eye shade to shut the light.

Having a passenger close a window shade because other passenger can't sleep is akin to moving houses because of bed bugs. Change the bed, not the house I took reference from an old adage in Tamil language, apologies if I didn't say it right

However, on abuse by other passengers : what was the abuse ? and was the FA quiet when the abuse happened?

Re glare in J/F : Have had this issue before, but in most cases, I sleep with the blanket covering my face, so limited discomfort

Re glare on IFE screens : have to agree, open blinds do leave a glare on the IFE in Y. One option to fix it would be to increase the brightness or contrast or one of those display options. Also, I guess the newer aircraft Y IFE's are somehow designed to be work fine even in a glare situation ? Had a Y flight from SYD-SIN earlier this month in Y where blinds were open but didn't have any problem viewing the IFE

Re the anti-glare thingy on 787 : loved it recent overnight flight from HKG-SYD. As the flight was approaching AUS, the sun was up and because of the blue anti glare, there was no (very limited) sun light in the cabin and the sun shone as a well defined blue dot when viewed through the window. When I woke up from my sleep, I first thought it was a flight next to us and later I realized "Silly, Ade, it's the sun "

 

[RooFlyer]

2 hours out of ADL on the way to HKG, maybe that big rock north of ADL and south of DRW, outside of that there is not much else to look at than red dirt.

(To me) that's like saying just drink any wine because .. its just wine. The earth is beautiful .. the terrains, mountains, landscapes etc, all different. I love watching it all. OK, ocean is boring but sometimes you get neat clouds there

That said, when the cabin is darkened I an conscious of not flooding it with light, especially if my neighbour is either sleeping or watching IFE. Then, its generally closed with regular peeking.

 

[Matt_01]

You were replying to acomment about the effect of glare on IFE screens.....PLEASE tell us how eye masks are going to help with that?

Sure point taken but the thread was also jumping around a bit on glare, light so maybe I should have been a bit clearer. In J or F one one window is not going to effect the glare on 10-15 PAX IFE. I do not think that there is an international carrier who has more that 14 seats in the F cabin. As for general light and wanting to sleep that is what eye masks are for however @Forg did come up with a creative answer.

They block out the glare on the IFE screens … ?

When you go back to the OPs comments I read it is that they were being asked to close a blind at 3pm in the afternoon so others could sleep IMO that is a bit unreasonable.

 

[Matt_01]

(To me) that's like saying just drink any wine because .. its just wine. The earth is beautiful .. the terrains, mountains, landscapes etc, all different. I love watching it all. OK, ocean is boring but sometimes you get neat clouds there

That said, when the cabin is darkened I an conscious of not flooding it with light, especially if my neighbour is either sleeping or watching IFE. Then, its generally closed with regular peeking.

I do not disagree that the earth is not beautiful, whenever I fly International and I will all ways pick the window seat and travel with blind at around 3/4 closed.

 

[Max Samuels]

I have also had similar issues with Cathay... in the middle of the day. I put it down to them being lazy and hopes everyone will fall asleep so they do not have to work....

I have heard the same from my QF friends that are old and bitter and twisted FAs (I LOVE them as friends, i would hate to be on their flights...) Anyway, they always cough about the flights to Santiago as they are completely during the daylight I believe (at least in one direction?) and everyone wants to see Antarctica... and all the FAs want is for everyone to go to sleep - true story - from their own mouths....

Recently (probs 6 months now) I was on QF4 HNL-SYD which is a day flight as you all know. I was in 1A in the old F config (I miss it!!!). I had the shades up the entire time and was reading a book as I love to do on day flights.... anyway, a few hours into the flight a FA approached me and said "Mr... another passenger has asked me to ask you if you would close your blind.... you dont have to - its entirely up to you - but i needed to pass the message on".... I replied "well since I have 3 windows I will close 2 of them and leave the one next to me open"...... anyway, I did that, and a few hours later I was asked the same thing again - and I just refused.

My answer to those that ask me to close my windows: why have windows at all? Why is there a "window" seat? The airline doesn't need windows. They could enclose the whole thing.... Yet another sign of the dumbing down of our society.... people so over-indulged that the fact they are flying through they air at close to the speed of sound no longer interests them... instead they want to see some 6 month old movies, or keep up with what the Kardashians are up to.... shame on you all.

 

[Max Samuels]

Had a Y flight from SYD-SIN earlier this month in Y where blinds were open but didn't have any problem viewing the IFE...

I assume you weren't watching Season 8 of Game of Thrones..... it was so dark I couldn't even see it at home in pitch blackness!

 

[jastel]

If I have to shut the blind you have to turn off your reading light too...

I remember in the USA somewhere, broad daylight, before Take Off the plane had all the blinds closed to "keep it cool" was the FA explanation...sensible I thought.
Here QF (my main carrier) crack a fit if you close the blinds at take off/landing...I do get the safety side of seeing through the window at the actual moment of take off/landing etc but not while you are sitting waiting 30 minutes to get going.

Even at night over ocean/deserts there are sights to see...stars, planes, lightning etc.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

My answer to those that ask me to close my windows: why have windows at all? Why is there a "window" seat? The airline doesn't need windows. They could enclose the whole thing.... Yet another sign of the dumbing down of our society.... people so over-indulged that the fact they are flying through they air at close to the speed of sound no longer interests them... instead they want to see some 6 month old movies, or keep up with what the Kardashians are up to.... shame on you all.

Windows provide an element of safety - being able to view the engines or outside conditions.

They also allow viewing of some spectacular sights. Grand Canyon, Hong Kong (particularly at night), London to name just a few.

But if you're not looking at the view, and you know other passengers are disturbed by your actions? That's seems a little harsh.

TBH, I don't particularly need a window seat but I snag them anyway just to be able to control the blinds.

 

[Max Samuels]

Windows provide an element of safety - being able to view the engines or outside conditions...

Do they? Probs not..... I don't see many windows on a cargo version of passenger planes, so we can categorically say that the 200+ windows on a 747 are NOT for safety... if they did need them for safety it would only be a couple in key positions.... but even then, how does that help with the centre engine in a trijet config?

They also allow viewing of some spectacular sights. Grand Canyon, Hong Kong (particularly at night), London to name just a few.

Totes agree... but who is decide what is view worthy and what is not?

It is interesting that the airline has no official policy on these things.... but they do seem to feel the need to let you know if your window seat as no window....

I'm just an average Joe, but when I am asked to select a window or an aisle seat, the assumption I make is that there will be a window and I will be allowed to use it.

 

[Max Samuels]

I remember in the USA somewhere, broad daylight, before Take Off the plane had all the blinds closed to "keep it cool" was the FA explanation...sensible I thought.
Here QF (my main carrier) crack a fit if you close the blinds at take off/landing..

Yeah it is totally mind boggling how different the safety "standards" are, which makes me think they are all made up. Unless it comes from the Boeing handbook, I think it is just BS company policy based on zero evidence and enforced by the junior work experience team.

Another example is the no luggage under seats for exit rows. American seem to deal with this - they just have nets underneath those seats - as long as your stuff fits inside the nets everything is OK.

Of course our national carrier invented flight so they would know better..... not.

I just hate being lied to.

 

[ayebee]

After too many flights I still love looking out the window when there is something to look at, but also try and minimise glare for the IFE screens.
In daytime, if I am on the sunny side I will keep it closed except for the occasional peek.
At night, there is no reason to keep it closed, and occasionally you see something special ... caught this on SYD-PEK flight last year, over the Yangtze valley.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yeah it is totally mind boggling how different the safety "standards" are, which makes me think they are all made up. Unless it comes from the Boeing handbook, I think it is just BS company policy based on zero evidence and enforced by the junior work experience team.

Another example is the no luggage under seats for exit rows. American seem to deal with this - they just have nets underneath those seats - as long as your stuff fits inside the nets everything is OK.

Of course our national carrier invented flight so they would know better..... not.

I just hate being lied to.

Yeah, AA have some strange safety procedures. The 'shades down' is one of them. This is clearly a potential safety issue, not least if it is bright outside but dark in the cabin, the few seconds it takes people to adjust to the bright light could be an issue. (Or trying to evacuate in a dark cabin when you could have light.)

Passengers do like windows. Which is why pax planes have so many of them. But your question was why have windows at all? The answer is that there is a safety element. Cargo planes often have exposed windows at strategic points, but they also don't have to worry about evacuating a cabin of 400+ people. Wndows not only allow light into the cabin if it's daytime, but allow pax to assess outside conditions (smoke and fire). They will also provide a degree of orientation in the moments after a crash.

 

[Max Samuels]

But your question was why have windows at all? The answer is that there is a safety element...

Actually that wasn't a question - it was rhetorical. Meaning, if you have windows and don't allow people to use them, then why bother?

Yeah, AA have some strange safety procedures. The 'shades down' is one of them. This is clearly a potential safety issue,...

Is it? I don't think it is a policy to have them down (or up) - you can just have them as you please. Once again the "safety" thing - I think we have been brainwashed by the terrible QF safety demos and actually believe their cough.

Does anyone here actually know? Does anyone have a friend/sister/brother/cousin/uncle/aunt that work for Boeing or Airbus and can get us a copy of the safety handbook? Because, if American Airlines, the world's largest airline by every metric including fleet-size, if they have dangerous policies that are contradictory to the handbook, and if Qantas are the ones doing it right, then we have a really big issue and even bigger news story!

 

[harvyk]

Because, if American Airlines, the world's largest airline by every metric including fleet-size, if they have dangerous policies that are contradictory to the handbook, and if Qantas are the ones doing it right, then we have a really big issue and even bigger news story!

I don't know if I would call AA the poster boy for safety. Thinking about their seatbelt sign which is frequently left on the entire flight. It becomes something the pax and FA's effectively ignore. That can't be safe.

 

[Matt_01]

Yeah it is totally mind boggling how different the safety "standards" are, which makes me think they are all made up. Unless it comes from the Boeing handbook, I think it is just BS company policy based on zero evidence and enforced by the junior work experience team.......

A tad off topic from window shades but to your point I seem to recall I have been asked to remove my headphone on decent on a couple of flights either last year or the year before. It was citied as safety reason either on SQ, TG, CX or maybe more than one, I cannot remember.

Back on topic @ayebee keep those blinds open, great photo.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Actually that wasn't a question - it was rhetorical. Meaning, if you have windows and don't allow people to use them, then why bother?



Is it? I don't think it is a policy to have them down (or up) - you can just have them as you please. Once again the "safety" thing - I think we have been brainwashed by the terrible QF safety demos and actually believe their cough.

Does anyone here actually know? Does anyone have a friend/sister/brother/cousin/uncle/aunt that work for Boeing or Airbus and can get us a copy of the safety handbook? Because, if American Airlines, the world's largest airline by every metric including fleet-size, if they have dangerous policies that are contradictory to the handbook, and if Qantas are the ones doing it right, then we have a really big issue and even bigger news story!

American Airlines is, apparently, not the largest airline by every metric. Only fleet size and number of employees: Is American Still The World's Largest Airline? | One Mile at a Time

The issue of shades open for critical stages of flight, and likewise cabin lights dimmed for critical stages of flight, is based on sound reasoning, and is why most airlines outside the USA enforce this as a rule (if it's not already a regulation). The FAA however doesn't have such a rule, but that doesn't mean they are right (737MAX).

 

[mannej]

I am not sure you can state that because one airline does X, but others don’t due to safety that the others are brainwashing their pax. Risk appetite and safety systems differing between organizations is hardly unusual.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

... I seem to recall I have been asked to remove my headphone on decent on a couple of flights either last year or the year before. It was citied as safety reason either on SQ, TG, CX or maybe more than one, I cannot remember.

Which is also a relevant safety issue which hasn't gained a lot of traction with airlines so far. It always used to be the case, many years ago, that headphones were collected well before landing. Then airlines started advertising 'gate to gate' IFE. The safety considerations on this seem to have been forgotten.

It's unfortunate that many safety improvements only result from significant accidents resulting in injury or loss of life.

 

[Matt_01]

Which is also a relevant safety issue which hasn't gained a lot of traction with airlines so far. It always used to be the case, many years ago, that headphones were collected well before landing....

I remember those days but thought they were being collected so they were not pinched. My father and later myself used to hide the air tube type so as they were not collected, these old types were very useful to tune twin carburetors.