Why I am ditching QF F/J longhaul, despite loving it.

[Kremmen]

Qantas are not alone in this. United used to be (?still are) notorious for having very senior (read 'older' - 60+) staff in their First cabins in Transpac - their coveted route.

I used to fly them a lot and it could go either way. Some were jaded and bored, while others still enjoyed providing service, which mean that some were like unhappy robots, while a few were like your nicest grandma.

I can certainly see the comparison with QF. Best international crews in recent years were on a trip to NOU, which is obviously at the low end of the seniority ladder.

 

[juddles]

I am believing that the principal thing here is culture. And in the case of Qantas that staff culture is not pax-focused. I do not buy the argument that QF staff are more safety focussed than pax-focussed - I do not think that the two are mutually exclusive.

 

[juddles]

Not sure if I have broached this before, but last year one of my daughters did a school trip to Japan on Singapore Airlines. She had sufferred/enjoyed a lot of air travel as she grew up - almost exclusively on QF in J flying between Australia and South America.

Her main perception of those SQ flights (right at the back, in a middle seat in Y) was that the staff were amazing. She loved it.

That hurt me on so many levels.....

 

[Silvia]

I usually fly to South America as I have family and whilst QF 747 isn't the best product, it's still better than LATAM. I do agree that PE on QF27 and QF28 tends to be better than J. Unsure whether it's the 747 crew, but I now don't bother aiming for an upgrade on J. Very bad experiences in QF3/4 as well. QF7/8 on J so far so good. Just did QF trans tasman in J and whilst the food was mediocre, the crew was lovely.

 

[Nank]

I've been fortunate to have plenty of great experiences on many airlines, even down to LCCs like JQ and TT which I regularly see people complaining about on social media (though I will say said complaints are usually minor issues that every airline has to face and really shouldn't be a "never flying them again" case unless your made out of snowflakes and end up sitting on Bondi beach during summer....) but I have definitely had some poor ones too, even with people like the Qantas Club staff at Tulla which I have spoken rhyme and verse about before. At the end of the day I completely understand that its a tough job and not always nice, but you have to keep your spirits up, even if only on the outside, because fare paying passengers expect good service. They often don't enjoy it any more than you do, and often much less.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

I really don't like their consistent inconsistency.

For me this thread is summed up by this statement.

QFi is simply too inconsistent when it comes to service levels...you are at the mercy of the crew assigned and in particular the actual crew person assigned to you.

Too many times I have boarded a QFi flight wondering whether or not I'll be fighting for my supper, ie. will I get the service I have paid for and deserve.

Asian carriers are more consistent in that I always know I will have a good to very good experience but certainly never a bad one. I've never had rolled eyes, big huffs and sighs when requesting something, rock hard bread rolls thrown at me, call buttons left on for 10mins plus, etc etc. when flying CX, SQ, JL, etc.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

last year one of my daughters did a school trip to Japan on Singapore Airlines.............Her main perception of those SQ flights (right at the back, in a middle seat in Y) was that the staff were amazing...........That hurt me on so many levels.....

Gee what a surprise!

Finally understanding where SQ sits in air travel compared to QF hurts you? Jeez you must be in constant unbearable pain cobber!!!

 

[stm1sydney]

Gee what a surprise!

Finally understanding where SQ sits in air travel compared to QF hurts you? Jeez you must be in constant unbearable pain cobber!!!

And someone mentioned the term "Stockholm Syndrome" in relation to loyal QF pax and got jumped on. Maybe there is something in that.

 

[Paulsyd]

Are Qantas treating the older crew the same as newer crew who are on different contracts (lower pay ) and poor conditions compared to longer serving crew.Is this causing an unpleasant working environment . A lot of the newer crew don't even receive discounted travel. I think it's Qantas management faults for using so many contractors. The crew that fly the AU-NZ flights are employed by a company in New Zealand.Imagine do the same job but with different working conditions.

 

[bulldog88]

On my last longhaul with Virgin (LAX-BNE) I was seated opposite a young(ish) Virgin flight attendant travelling in Business class, I assume a staff/non-revenue ticket.

I was desperately trying to sleep while this guy shared details of his LA-SFO-Vegas-LA roadtrip with every flight attendant on the plane who came by for a chat.

 

[SRS65]

Interesting thread incl. great varied views - with some consistency around "mature" QF FA job safety being a catalyst to inferior service levels.
Just flew in J to Asia and had a mixed crew with both flights. (generally senior / mature crew across all flights )
One thing of note is some bad habits being passed on to "less senior" crew when leading by example.
We had a standout crew member on both international legs albeit on my Wife's side of the plane - unfortunate for me I suppose.
The Sommelier in the sky is definitely a myth in my eyes as received the standard red or white reply when asking about the much touted wine pairing.
Must admit that the first half of each flight was better service generally then it went downhill from there - noticeably.
Whether this is a pattern of FA flight routine or just providing the minimum required to get through a flight is a mystery to me?

 

[CaptJCool]

This. Most of us love Qantas as a concept. It's just the execution is so bad that we have moved on.

In Australia we confuse servitude with service. Perhaps it’s to do with our convict labor roots.

Imagine having 64 convicts available to help build your mansion. Free servitude

Well, go check out Elizabeth Bay House to see a fine example of just that,

There are different EBAs for QFi, QFdom and JQ

The long time staff are on rates to $50 per hour, $100 per hour if flight goes over 14 hours
Upwards of $100,000 pa
QFdom $80,000 pa at minimum
JQ $35,000 pa
JQ VIETNAM OR THSILAND coughe wages

You may wonder why 787 ex London is staffed from UK. Bet Labor rates are appallingly low....

 

[nickfromeastryde]

Not sure if I have broached this before, but last year one of my daughters did a school trip to Japan on Singapore Airlines. She had sufferred/enjoyed a lot of air travel as she grew up - almost exclusively on QF in J flying between Australia and South America.

Her main perception of those SQ flights (right at the back, in a middle seat in Y) was that the staff were amazing. She loved it.

That hurt me on so many levels.....

Probably had nothing to do with her travelling with a whole lot of school friends as against her old dad. What am I thinking, how could that have anything to do with it

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Whether this is a pattern of FA flight routine or just providing the minimum required to get through a flight is a mystery to me?

It is luck of the draw....I've had amazing experiences with both young and old QF crew, and the same again but for terrible experiences. I've never had crew from any Asian carrier actually arguing with me whether or not something is edible and perfectly fine to serve up in J class (rock hard bread roll anyone?).

 

[1022]

QFi on a good day can be truly excellent. Two particular experiences spring to mind for me. One a senior-ish guy serving my section of downstairs J on a 747 to LAX who was one of the most intuitive, observant and personable flight attendants I have ever encountered on any airline on any route. The CSM and customer service inbox received high praise after the flight. Another was on an A380 flight to HKG in J but seated in 4A (first not sold on the flight). The more junior woman serving the A aisle was providing what I would consider a First level of service to match the hard product. Both these people took pride in all aspects of their role.

QFi on a bad day can be truly, staggeringly, surprisingly bad. A trip to BKK in J on an A330 the people being served from the left hand aisle were receiving very good service from a youngish guy, immaculately groomed, addressing pax by name, presenting food and wine with attention to detail, a genuine smile and banter to those who wanted it. Those of us being served from the right hand aisle were getting the kind of service one would normally associate with the legendary UA prison guards of yore. Judging by the person’s accent, that’s probably where they learned their trade. Pax were left shrugging our shoulders or even laughing at how rude this person was. They also looked like they hadn’t glanced at a mirror that day.

Overall i’ve Always found domestic QF service more consisistent. Maybe because in J on a 737 one is always being served by the CSM, 85% of whom I find to be very good. (But really it should be 100% of course).

 

[Fergo747]

The more junior woman serving the A aisle was providing what I would consider a First level of service to match the hard product

I've had this a number of times on the SYD>HKG route when they didn't sell F. Got chatting one particularly good crew member and she was actually an F attendant that had been staffed on that particular flight. I could not fault her to the extent that my glass was constantly topped up and she made up my bed after I spent some time with colleagues in the upstairs lounge. I made sure to send extremely positive feedback

 

[pauly7]

I've had this a number of times on the SYD>HKG route when they didn't sell F. Got chatting one particularly good crew member and she was actually an F attendant that had been staffed on that particular flight. I could not fault her to the extent that my glass was constantly topped up and she made up my bed after I spent some time with colleagues in the upstairs lounge. I made sure to send extremely positive feedback

Good on you for sending feedback, some people are happy to B&M but not take the step to give feedback either bad or good to help shape the service they have experienced - for any airline. I’ve had staff receive awards based on my feedback and equally I’m pretty sure I played a role in having a particularly awful person performance managed

 

[GoldCanyon340]

But Neil's green salad is always worth the wait.

... for it to provoke the thought, "I'm in the wrong job"

 

[lonewolf]

My experiences are all on economy but this is why i dont like to fly the western airlines as much as i do the eastern and would rather book them. As I find with Qantas, BA and most definitely the American and canadian airlines as having not as nice staff to deal with and sometimes even to the point of rude. Also I find the longer haul / international flights seem to have this issue more than the local / domestic flights where they tend to have the younger / newer / less jaded staff maybe...

Saying all that, I think there was an article / comparison done a few years ago on Qantas and Singapore airlines as they were both similar in size and the biggest problem qantas had was the exorbitant fees its upper management get paid as compared to Singapore Airlines and not really about the lower end staff.

What I dont get these days is why do i have to pay on Qantas to book a seat, when that was what the budget airlines do... These days its hard to compare as Qantas seems to ask you to pay fees on things it never did before. Once Qantas started that then emirates followed and i notice Malaysian airlines is doing the same thing as well .

 

[joeymelb]

I used to fly QF a lot in my younger days, and loved QF. That was because my company was paying my fare and I had access to Qantas Club and regularly get to fly J. Now, I don't fly as much and usually only max 3 times a year for personal holiday.

My last QF flight was MEL-PER using QF9/10 trying out the 787-9 J. I self-funded the flight at over 4K return, and I find that QF discriminate against those leisure pax with no status. When I booked my fare, I found only back 2 rolls of J cabin were available to reserve on QF9 and QF10. I was told that the good seats are reserved for QFF Pax. Onboard, I was all but ignored with just standard meal service. I had to physically go into the galley to find a crew to get a bottle of water. Or simply the call button on my seat was totally broken (but on both legs??).

When I flew with SQ J or F, I didn't have issues with reserving seats (e.g. 3A or 3F on 388, 11A/12A on 77W) and I got treated equally as other J/F passengers. I personally held no status with QF (just bronze) and SQ.

Lastly, when I call QF's call centre to make a change, I was met with hour-long wait then someone in a land far far away who can't speak English. While on SQ's call centre, my call was answered straight away by someone who can speak English (with Singapore accent) and followed up with a personal email communication to confirm everything is fixed/updated.

I have 3 trips coming up, SQ J trip to BKK in June, then SQ F trip to FRA in August, finished by a EK F to DUB in October. I really do find that talking to SQ and EK's staff in call centres to be far more enjoyable than QF. Plus on air, SQ is just consistent in their level of service. QF was too inconsistent for me and I felt discriminated against (maybe because I have no status or Asian looking).

Note: Never flown with EK before, I will be flying EK for the first time in my life. EK staff were extremely nice over phone and even though I do not qualify for Dubai Connect program they just gave that to me and followed with email on collecting the voucher at check-in.