Why can't I fly to the US cheaply anymore???

[Travelmonkey]

The problem has always been lack of competition on the Kangaroo route. Now that we have some competiton, the main players have all been so used to this not being a route that they want to lose money on that no one is prepared to rock the boat long term. Why is SQ so keen to get on board with SYD-LAX rights!

With regards to the fares, you basically get what you pay for on this route. If it is cheap then you probably aren't getting some of the mod-cons of other airlines. FJ is a last resort. The US airlines (UA,DL) are still trying to catch up with the rest of the world with personal entertainment screens. VA is limited to LAX as a gateway and NZ is great but you still have to go via AKL. No wonder QF is the most expensive option.

The only thing that really gets me is why we in Australia are always the most expensive airfares. Ex USA or UK/Europe, no one pays as much as we do for airfares! Why are we always subsidising the rest of the world? I just don't get it!!

 

[serfty]

...

The only thing that really gets me is why we in Australia are always the most expensive airfares. Ex USA or UK/Europe, no one pays as much as we do for airfares! Why are we always subsidising the rest of the world? I just don't get it!!

See my earlier post, which I've repeated below; maybe it's because most Oz residents are 'conditioned' to pay. It's generally even more expensive for Kiwis:

ex OZ, the airlines perceive a captive market.¹ Even before the recent surge in the AUD against the USD, I have been able to get ex USA return fares to Oz for between 30% and 40% less than the oither way.

In recent years, the majority of my transpacific travel has been booked ex LAX.

¹ I guess this is born out by reality as people continue to book ex Oz at these relatively high fares.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

The problem has always been lack of competition on the Kangaroo route. Now that we have some competiton, the main players have all been so used to this not being a route that they want to lose money on that no one is prepared to rock the boat long term. Why is SQ so keen to get on board with SYD-LAX rights!

SQ have been after the SYD/LAX route for ages. F & J fares ex Aust to the USA are generally more expensive than to UK/Europe & not nearly as many rival airlines to compete with such as Emirates & Etihad who by all accounts offer an excellent product in the pointy end.

I'd say SQ would love to take on QF for a slice of the action from a Star Alliance perspective as any pax who is in *A must go UA if they want non-stop SYD/LAX or via AKL with NZ. SQ may not view UA/NZ or FJ as a threat on that route & they'd love to get premium pax that given the choice may now choose SQ over QF.

It would also mean you could pretty much fly SQ solely around the world eg SYD/LAX surface then JFK/FRA or IAH/MOW or GRU/BCN then ex Europe back to Aust via SIN.

Singapore Airlines -- Route Map

 

[jaffa]

Perhaps the new Virgin Australia rumoured tie-up/arrangement?? talks with SQ may see some benifits come our way.

If l understand things right, could Virgin sell a direct USA service using SQ metal (normal SQ flight) ect but sell it as a codeshare??????????????? under there own steam.

Would this en-able SQ to effectively by-pass the reasons they cannot do it now??

Just wondering!

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Perhaps the new Virgin Australia rumoured tie-up/arrangement?? talks with SQ may see some benifits come our way.

If l understand things right, could Virgin sell a direct USA service using SQ metal (normal SQ flight) ect but sell it as a codeshare??????????????? under there own steam.

Would this en-able SQ to effectively by-pass the reasons they cannot do it now??

Just wondering!

I would have thought Virgin would want their own crews/planes etc for the visibility & besides what's in it for them?

I don't see SQ doing it this way (assuming it's actually legal) as their ego would dictate they'd need to go in under their own steam having their own metal & all the associated fanfare, dancing girls, well at least Singapore girls so I can't see them doing it - it'd have to be an all or nothing scenario ie full traffic rights or nothing.

Most codeshare arrangements I've heard of have flights for sale under the banner of bother the operating carrier (eg whose metal it is) in addition to the codeshare airlines allocation of seats.

 

[Mitch_W]

I'd say SQ would love to take on QF for a slice of the action from a Star Alliance perspective as any pax who is in *A must go UA if they want non-stop SYD/LAX or via AKL with NZ.

Hi Oz,

Thanks for your input on this.
I have SQ KF points but have never booked with another *A member & only ever used them on SQ (which has always been my preference).

Is it economical to book with another *A member? (SYD-IAH) and how is it done?
I have only ever booked thru SQ website in the past.

Regards,
Mitch

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Lots of good thoughts here... but I wonder if AUD$900 return should be seen in any way as a "normal" fare.

Wasn't that the lowest of the low during the airlines worst period (late 2009 ???)

The reason I see AUD$900 as the 'normal' fare is because this is routinely the ex-LAX price return LAX-SYD on the QF USA website!!

Why does the same fare (SYD-LAX vs LAX-SYD) cost 30/40% more as serfty indicated. I think conditioning has a lot to do with it, just like we are conditioned that European cars should be 30/40% more here than rest of the world.

Just surf the QF website while stateside...the 'VISIT DOWNUNDER US$899 RTN' flash ads are hard to miss, and mysteriously vanish once you are back home!

I picked up SYD-HNL-LAX-SYD on QF for $1039 last November. This same fare is now $3049!!! Why? Because they can :evil:

 

[serfty]

...
Just surf the QF website while stateside...the 'VISIT DOWNUNDER US$899 RTN' flash ads are hard to miss, and mysteriously vanish once you are back home!
...

You will need to watch the disclaimer on those advertised prices, there is no federal inclusive pricing legislation so

needs to be added.¹

Note the ex USA Qantas fares quoted advertised do include the fuel fins, so have increased by about $300 rt recently to ~$1300USD base.

¹ "US and foreign taxes, fees, including September 11th Security Fee of up to $10, are an additional $140 to $210 depending upon itinerary."


Note you can also get Premium economy for say LAX-SYD round trip from US$2950. Similar flights/dates ex OZ will cost from AU$4850.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

The reason I see AUD$900 as the 'normal' fare is because this is routinely the ex-LAX price return LAX-SYD on the QF USA website!!

Why does the same fare (SYD-LAX vs LAX-SYD) cost 30/40% more as serfty indicated. I think conditioning has a lot to do with it, just like we are conditioned that European cars should be 30/40% more here than rest of the world.

Just surf the QF website while stateside...the 'VISIT DOWNUNDER US$899 RTN' flash ads are hard to miss, and mysteriously vanish once you are back home!

I picked up SYD-HNL-LAX-SYD on QF for $1039 last November. This same fare is now $3049!!! Why? Because they can :evil:

Seasonality plays a small part in it too as June is peak season Aust to USA as it's their summer whereas fares USA to Aust are off-peak as it's our winter.

I had a look at the US Qantas website for fares LAX/SYD on 06 June returning on 06 July & the outbound fare component of the return availability shows a 'Sale' airfare on QF12 of USD640.00 yet if you look one way only same date, same flight the cheapest ex USA 'Red Tail' fare is USD1169.00.

It would be handy if you could book the USD640.00 option & somehow be able to delete the return sector before paying for it. Both the forward and return fares are separate one way fare components so I don't see why you're not allowed to buy it on its own.

Hi Oz,

Thanks for your input on this.
I have SQ KF points but have never booked with another *A member & only ever used them on SQ (which has always been my preference).

Is it economical to book with another *A member? (SYD-IAH) and how is it done?
I have only ever booked thru SQ website in the past.

Regards,
Mitch

I'm not too familiar with SQ KF redemptions but there are members like Cove on AFF who use SQ a fair bit that may be able to give their input.

It's always a good idea to compare redemptions to the gateway city eg LAX or SFO vs IAH as sometimes you burn a lot more points flying to an internal USA destination. It can sometimes be a lot cheaper to simply buy a ticket for the LAX/IAH/LAX sectors & you often get better deals on airlines going via a hub city. Maybe checkout www.priceline.com as it will give you a cost comparison showing multiple airlines that fly between your chosen cities.

 

[cove]

With SQ Kris points it is a bit of a hard sell to go SYD-SIN to get to LAX and onwards as this is back tracking quite a bit.
The availability in Kris points is very good so it is worthy of consideration.

 

[dfcatch]

I've just been looking at Nov/Dec pricing both ex SYD, and ex LAX and it's horrible both ways atm (even before the Xmas season pricing kicks in). Have to wait till it gets closer and the specials are announced.

 

[Mitch_W]

With SQ Kris points it is a bit of a hard sell to go SYD-SIN to get to LAX and onwards as this is back tracking quite a bit.
The availability in Kris points is very good so it is worthy of consideration.

Hi Cove,
I looked briefly at SYD-SIN-IAH (via Moscow!) and saw 8hrs plus 23 hours in Y and thought "uggh". Bearable in J but with my young bloke in tow, I just don't have the points for 2.
Are you saying that the conversion of KF points is very good when transferring them via Star Alliance to say UA or NZ??? Or do you mean good availabilty on SQ itself going the long way round?
Regards,
Mitch

 

[Timba-Jet]

Seasonality plays a small part in it too as June is peak season Aust to USA as it's their summer whereas fares USA to Aust are off-peak as it's our winter.
.

This makes sense but it doesn't as well. If most people are taking short trips 1-4 weeks, then shouldn't the return leg have equal seasonal demand, give or take 1-2 week lag?

 

[ozbeachbabe]

This makes sense but it doesn't as well. If most people are taking short trips 1-4 weeks, then shouldn't the return leg have equal seasonal demand, give or take 1-2 week lag?

I here what you're saying T-J!

Seasonality of the round trip eg SYD/LAX/SYD is wholly based on what season it is for your outbound journey ex Australia so if it's peak season SYD/LAX & you're going away for 2 weeks only it's still counted as peak season for the return date.

However an American travelling on exactly the same flight as you LAX/SYD returning two weeks later SYD/LAX would be paying eg low season over & back.

 

[howiesue]

One thing I noticed is that using ff points on American Airlines last year only incurred a "fees and taxes" charge of $2.50, regardless of sector or class travelled. Whilst AA are not the best to travel with, it persuaded me to use them instead of BA for a NY to LHR sector in business just to save several hundred $$ for two of us.

 

[sanbot]

I recently purchased an airfare with Delta flying SYD-LAX-Detroit-Hong Kong for $1360. I thought that was a good deal, although the trip ends in HK so I guess that could be why its cheaper.

 

[Mitch_W]

Greetings All,
Just to update you on this story....
I have ended up booking the trip thru Kris Flyer on points in J (found some extras to transfer across) with OZ (Asiana). The young bloke will now be spoilt for Y!
The trip is SYD-ICN-LAX-ICN-SYD. Taxes & fees were S$745 each (about A$500) which is not too bad. Never flown with Asiana before but they seem to have a good reputation and are a 5 Star airline as is Singapore. Any feedback on Asiana would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[willzzz88]

You know although I've not a that frequent traveler yet I CAN SAY that if you have YOUNG KIDS in tow I HIGHLY RECOMMEND FOR THEIR WELL BEING AND PARENTHOOD to book the FASTEST route. Nothing gets more angrier for a toddler than trans-pacific flights screaming. Believe me, my brother and parents as an Asian American here.

I personally would just eat it and do VA or NZ via AKL.

You will be quite surprised by Asiana, their like the 'little cousin' of KE.

Finally the LACK of AVOD on UA 744's running SYD-LAX/SFO isn't the END of the world, a laptop dvd player or similar does wonders, etc. plus you have entertainment THEY KNOW, etc. Also noise-cancelling headphones for the youngish will do heaps good.

 

[jb747]

The cost of FUEL ALONE is about $60 per person per hour. So, that works out to $1800 per person for the return flight across the Pacific.

 

[Mitch_W]

You know although I've not a that frequent traveler yet I CAN SAY that if you have YOUNG KIDS in tow I HIGHLY RECOMMEND FOR THEIR WELL BEING AND PARENTHOOD to book the FASTEST route. Nothing gets more angrier for a toddler than trans-pacific flights screaming.

Hi Willzzz,
I should have said the "young bloke" is 20 years old. I can''t imagine he will doing too much screaming in J class. He will be in awe I think after spending many flights in Y or cattle class as he calls it! Like I said, this will spoil him for the future.
Cheers