Where to go after BMI?

[3eef]

I am after some help... I am not sure where to move to with my frequent flier points now that BMI becomes BA.

Background

I have been with BMI for 7 years (previously) United. I have held gold for that entire time.

I tend to take 5 - 6 Business Class return trips to Asia per year. Usually I fly on SQ as I like the A380. Then usually 1 Trip to USA Business per year usually NZ and possibly 1 to Europe usually SQ all from Sydney. I hate United due to poor service so am reluctant to use except in US Domestic. Currently accruing with BMI where I have 95k status miles since August. Total I have 500k miles in the bank as I tend to earn and burn to keep the better half happy...Typically I redeem miles for Business Class trips to Europe x 2 each year and USA x 2 each year.

Have Amex and collect membership rewards at circa 400k - 800k per year which I typically convert to VS for Business class flights to Europe or DJ for Business Class to USA.

The Question

So with BMI moving to BA I need some advice as to where to park my new points. I wont be putting more into BMI in 2012 due to the uncertainty.

Which is the best *A for redemption? Do they have good availability?
I love the BMI half cash redemption, and they seem to have good availability with LH & SQ in Business.

I like the look of SQ but all reports are availability is cough for redemption and expensive and points expire.
UA was my front runner as there are 1 way awards, upgrade awards, online booking and no expiry.. But now they require you to fly so much UA to get status which just sucks...

So I have been through the fine print of lots of programs TG, LH, SQ, NZ etc etc and all seem to have + & -.

Hence I am after your inspired and informed advice!

Thank you

 

[anat0l]

Choosing a *A program pretty much goes through the same formula no matter if you are switching or starting new. It also depends on what you want to get out of it.

Had to dish out some similar advice to a friend earlier (though his flying patterns were different). Here's the main dot points:

A3

Pros: Easiest to get *G - only 20,000 status miles. You can't expect more than the standard cross-alliance *G benefits, but *G is *G and at 20,000 miles that's low. It's also purported that A3 status lasts more than a year. Good accumulation if you are flying F or J (except for SQ, which gives 125% on J and 150-160% on F / R, but this "unlove" from SQ is universal).

Cons: Burn rates are pretty ordinary bordering on high.

LH

Pros: If you do fly enough of them, HON Circle is a great status to get, though probably won't fit your pattern (need to fly LH and its integrated partners, and a lot). Apart from that, decent benefits from LH at SEN level. Purported to be good availability of award seats made available to SEN and HON members, with additional options for points overdraft or "premium award" (i.e. 150% of the award price will secure you a ticket as long as there is ticketable availability). LH SEN and HON are the only ones that can book LH F seats unless you get lucky with other FFPs or book very last minute. Good accumulation rates - most carriers will accrue 200% for J and 300% for F, including SQ. Status lasts 2 years (but you need to requalify within 1 of those 2 years).

Cons: Very high *G qualification requirement - SEN needs 100,000 status miles per year (Executive Bonus of 25% on only select carriers does count towards status). The Executive Bonus of 25% only applies to some carriers; SQ is not one of them. Award pricing is rather high. Fuel surcharges purported to be high (though probably "normal" for most Europeans, and a travesty to all US-based flyers).

US

Most people like US only because they can buy points during promotions at good rates. This equals cheap tickets. You could use your flying to supplement bought miles. US is pretty much on par with UA in terms of accumulation, burning and status benefits, with the notable exceptions of slightly better accumulations on some airlines into US, and less options to redeem awards with US compared to UA (notably, US does not permit one-way bookings).

Like most USA based FFPs, there are no fuel surcharges on awards.

SQ

Pros: Saver awards, when you can get them, are a bargain. 15% less than gazetted prices if you book wholly online. SQ typically has good availability. SQ members are the only ones who can comfortably book SQ awards in J and F across all aircraft (except A380 F).

Cons: Miles have a 3 year hard expiry. Note that SQ SilverKris lounges in SIN T3 are only available to ticketed passengers in SQ J or F. SQ*Gs, like all other *Gs, must use the KrisFlyer Gold lounge (a much more inferior lounge). High fuel surcharges, so I've been told.

OZ

Pros: Status lasts 2 years and you can have 2 years to build up / requalify that status.

Cons: Awards chart is based on mileage ranges rather than geographic zones; whilst this isn't the big deal the actual rates aren't all that great. Apart from the easy 2 year status there's not much more to be said for OZ.


The rest of the programs are almost not worth bothering unless perhaps if you fly them a lot or you have a specific reason. This includes TG (seems like SQ except more inferior), TK (easy status but inferior accumulation rates and burn table), AC (has fuel surcharges now and award table is only semi-reasonable, elite benefits dubious), NZ (Airpoints are a ripoff unless you are supplementing them with a credit card, and even then, your premium spending won't give you much, plus absolute top tier NZ needs a lot of NZ metal flying) and NH (hard expiry of miles with low accumulation rates and high award prices).

 

[3eef]

Thanks anat0I great summary. LH does appeal from those I will have a look at them

 

[penegal]

Great summary anat0l.


I think SQ is a reasonable program depending on your exact needs.

The fuel surcharges are irritating to the point that whY redemptions are pointless. J and F are okay, especially as savers. Certainly it would be nice to pay $200 less, but when ticketing a saver online the number of points needed is reasonable, so you could look at it as a points + pay scenario when compared directly to other carriers (even though it's not).


In my experience availability on SQ is quite reasonable, especially if you have high SQ status.

Speaking of status, How much do you spend on flights per year? If your are likely to hit $25K SGD spend in J and F on SQ, then you will quality as a PPS club member, which has some published and unpublished benefits above regular *G. PPS gets access to the real lounges even when flying whY.


The co-branded Westpac Platinum Credit Card earns 3 pts per dollar for SQ flights (must be ticketed online in AU), which is handy if you can book fares yourself ex-AU.


The points expiry is a pain, but easily managed. You can sacrifice some points to "extend" them by 6 months, which you can do twice. Also, don't transfer points in unless you are ready to spend them.

 

[3eef]

Thanks penegal.

SQ pps would probably be very quick as most bookings are with them. I tend to use Amex to book and keep miles in my account. Does Westpac transfer to sq each month?

What are sq bookings like to redeem in business with other carriers?

Hard expiry is my BIG concern so useful to know re sacrifice option.

How can I calculate the pps $ contribution? Is it listed on the itinerary? I assume it excludes taxes etc?

Thx

 

[penegal]

SQ pps would probably be very quick as most bookings are with them. I tend to use Amex to book and keep miles in my account. Does Westpac transfer to sq each month?

Yeah, Westpac transfers each month. The VISA is useless, but the Platinum card earns 1.5x on AMEX normally, and double miles (3x) on SingaporeAir.com purchases.

The direct earn means you have 3 (4) years to use the miles, but at 3 miles per buck on SQ purchases, its hard to beat for earning...

What are sq bookings like to redeem in business with other carriers?

It's not too bad. I use the ANA tool to check availability and then fill in the form and fax to Krisflyer. It's reasonably painless to do. Rate Charts are here:
Redeeming your miles on airline partners

How can I calculate the pps $ contribution? Is it listed on the itinerary? I assume it excludes taxes etc?

"PPS Value" is the fare component of the ticket (in Singapore Dollars based on the IATA exchange rate). It is hard to calculate exactly yourself, but basically take the fare component (no tax) in AUD and convert to SGD for an approximate value. It appears in your account the same way your miles balance does, so you start to get a good feel for the rates.

 

[3eef]

So I had a look at both M&M and KF.

As I have BD*G the benefit I need is really redemption. So I did a little basic maths and I believe M&M is better - for me anyway because of the x2 earn on sq!

basically to redeem to Europe with M&M is 11.8 trips rather than 15.3 in SQ. maths shown below.

I guess I have missed the impact of any accelerators once status is reached but seems pretty clear to me.

[TABLE="width: 560"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Miles[/TD]
[TD]SQ Miles[/TD]
[TD]MM Miles[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rate in Z[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.25[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SYD - Sin - SYD miles earn[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7824[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9780[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15648[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Points for gold[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]50000[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]100000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Trips for Gold[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Points for SYD - LHR - SYD Bus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]150000[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]185000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Trips for Reward SYD - LHR - SYD Bus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Points for SYD - SFO - SYD Bus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]80000[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]135000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Trips for Reward SYD - SFO - SYD Bus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]




​

 

[penegal]

At the end of the day it depends what is most important to you.



If I didn't fly SQ for work I would consider LH M&M as I think it's a reasonable program. However the vast majority of my Star flying is on SQ (and SQ metal at that). Therefore having status on SQ is "worth it" for me for the reasons listed above and others. Redemptions are good enough in my experience/opinion. Especially given "gaming" to get good operational aircraft.


Also, the recent agreement with Virgin Australia gives SQ another tick (although I should go some way to BIS [re-]qualification on DJ this year anyway).


YMMV.

 

[dajop]

So I had a look at both M&M and KF.

As I have BD*G the benefit I need is really redemption. So I did a little basic maths and I believe M&M is better - for me anyway because of the x2 earn on sq!

basically to redeem to Europe with M&M is 11.8 trips rather than 15.3 in SQ. maths shown below.

I guess I have missed the impact of any accelerators once status is reached but seems pretty clear to me.

[TABLE="width: 560"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Miles[/TD]
[TD]SQ Miles[/TD]
[TD]MM Miles[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rate in Z[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.25[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SYD - Sin - SYD miles earn[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7824[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9780[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15648[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Points for gold[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]50000[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]100000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Trips for Gold[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Points for SYD - LHR - SYD Bus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]150000[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]185000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Trips for Reward SYD - LHR - SYD Bus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Points for SYD - SFO - SYD Bus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]80000[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]135000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Trips for Reward SYD - SFO - SYD Bus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


​

Just some corrections to this, that may affect your analysis. Once you reach SQ PPS (or Krisflyer Gold) you will get a 25% bonus so business class earn will become an earn rate of 1.5. This reduces trips for SYD-LHR-SYD business on star partner to 12.8, or if you can get SQ J saver's all the way through (which are becoming more commonly available, especially for PPS members), then online booking discount of 15% reduces that to 10.9 trips. I did this analysis on my travel patterns and concluded that the BD program was far and away the best with Ethiopian second and SQ/LH very similar as third best). I'd like to see some other's experiences on Ethiopian before going down that path, and concluded that options to transfer credit card points plus ability to waitlist for (and subsequently clear) awards on SQ metal using Krisflyer, have made that my program of choice.

 

[penegal]

Agree with your analysis dajop.

---

As a side note: A while ago I remember Keith talking about some way to keep the PPS value "crediting" to SQ, while crediting miles to another carrier (eg BD).

I have always credited SQ flights to SQ, so never tried this, but if the OP chooses another program it may be a potential tactic... NB: I have little knowledge of this tactic, and whether it still works.

 

[anat0l]

Agree with your analysis dajop.

As a side note: A while ago I remember Keith talking about some way to keep the PPS value "crediting" to SQ, while crediting miles to another carrier (eg BD).

I have always credited SQ flights to SQ, so never tried this, but if the OP chooses another program it may be a potential tactic... NB: I have little knowledge of this tactic, and whether it still works.

There used to be many more loopholes related to what you are alluding to.

It's a markedly more stricter system now. I may be concluding far too broadly, but from memory and the odd anecdote it is very difficult - bordering impossible - to separate FQTS and FQTV on a booking. Sometimes it's been indoctrinated as a matter of procedure, but like before often it relied heavily on getting in contact with a person who knows what the hell to do.

 

[dajop]

There used to be many more loopholes related to what you are alluding to.

It's a markedly more stricter system now. I may be concluding far too broadly, but from memory and the odd anecdote it is very difficult - bordering impossible - to separate FQTS and FQTV on a booking. Sometimes it's been indoctrinated as a matter of procedure, but like before often it relied heavily on getting in contact with a person who knows what the hell to do.

It is not at all a loophole and certainly not impossible. And it isn't really double dipping, in the Hilton HHonors sense, you only get award miles once. Above all SQ value $ spent with them (in J/F cabins) and don't give a proverbial about who you direct your miles to - in fact if you're not one of the PPS elites you more or less get treated the same whether you are a Krisflyer gold, a Lufthansa gold or Aegean or Ethiopian gold.

Whilst it can be tricky at times, for me it seems to occur by default - I always book my flights with my desired mileage program in the booking. It usually picks up my KF number for PPS value (now I am not sure if my BD & NZ no's are associated with my KF profile, it picks up my full name, or picks up my passport number, whatever it seems to work). For newbies, best advice is to keep the KF number well away from the booking, just desired mileage program, and if it fails to credit PPS value, online submission of the flights taken (in J or F) through the SQ website will see it appear in KF account almost instantly.

 

[StevePER]

It's a markedly more stricter system now. I may be concluding far too broadly, but from memory and the odd anecdote it is very difficult - bordering impossible - to separate FQTS and FQTV on a booking. Sometimes it's been indoctrinated as a matter of procedure, but like before often it relied heavily on getting in contact with a person who knows what the hell to do.

I think there was a mention on the bmi board on FT that it was possible to specify the two programs on the LOT manage my booking site - but I'm not sure if it's still possible this way, and last time I tried that site I couldn't get it to work at all.

 

[serfty]

Actually, NZ is not to bad for status.

Redemption's/earn-burn rates do 'suck' however.

To earn top level Gold Elite, you do need 1500 SC's of which 900 SC's need to be on NZ "Flights" (Number & Metal).

However, if after achieving that, in the "next 12 months" you only need 1350 and 810 to re-qualify ... also, if you earn between 1350 and 2000 those additional SC's are carried for to your next "year".

Here's the big kicker - if you earn more than 2,000 SC's you 'bank' a year of GE, effectively earning another 24 months of top level and at least another 3 years of *G with their 'soft landing'. (The minimum cycle is 3500 SC's for four years of *G)

The best benefit of Gold Elite? IMHO, it's being able to carefully pick and book long haul Air NZ flights and upon ticketing, immediately confirm an upgrade to Premium Economy or Business Premium.

As for earning status, it's a lot like QFF with AA "Instant Upgrade" flights - e.g. I'm travelling on USair from LAS to SJU in April to earn 250 SC's for ~AUD510.

NZ flights? T-T earns from 30SC one-way and OZ-USA earns 85 Sc's one-way.

 

[dajop]

Redemption's/earn-burn rates do 'suck' however.

Surprisingly there are some gems out there, when stacked up against other programs, but they are few and far between and usually not that great usually. For an example, take 15 very short (<200 mile) TG domestic flights you might get enough for a one-way TT, whereas on other programs, you would be lucky to get even 3000 miles. Also earning in NZ points for J travel between Australia & Asia can stack up OK for NZ economy awards and a small number of Star Alliance awards (given that no fuel surcharges apply to partner bookings using Airpoints).

 

[anat0l]

Actually, NZ is not to bad for status.

Redemption's/earn-burn rates do 'suck' however.

To earn top level Gold Elite, you do need 1500 SC's of which 900 SC's need to be on NZ "Flights" (Number & Metal).

However, if after achieving that, in the "next 12 months" you only need 1350 and 810 to re-qualify ... also, if you earn between 1350 and 2000 those additional SC's are carried for to your next "year".

Here's the big kicker - if you earn more than 2,000 SC's you 'bank' a year of GE, effectively earning another 24 months of top level and at least another 3 years of *G with their 'soft landing'. (The minimum cycle is 3500 SC's for four years of *G)

The best benefit of Gold Elite? IMHO, it's being able to carefully pick and book long haul Air NZ flights and upon ticketing, immediately confirm an upgrade to Premium Economy or Business Premium.

As for earning status, it's a lot like QFF with AA "Instant Upgrade" flights - e.g. I'm travelling on USair from LAS to SJU in April to earn 250 SC's for ~AUD510.

NZ flights? T-T earns from 30SC one-way and OZ-USA earns 85 Sc's one-way.

This is fair if you do a lot of flying on NZ - even if it is running up the status.

However, if your bulk flying is not on NZ, even if you are a premium class flyer then NZ is not a good option.

If our OP did more flying through to PVG, PEK, HKG or NRT, then NZ might be considered (i.e. fly more via AKL rather than via SIN) as they will benefit from NZ especially when they fly the host carrier. OTOH the earn/burn thing needs to be considered.

 

[anat0l]

Surprisingly there are some gems out there, when stacked up against other programs, but they are few and far between and usually not that great usually. For an example, take 15 very short (<200 mile) TG domestic flights you might get enough for a one-way TT, whereas on other programs, you would be lucky to get even 3000 miles. Also earning in NZ points for J travel between Australia & Asia can stack up OK for NZ economy awards and a small number of Star Alliance awards (given that no fuel surcharges apply to partner bookings using Airpoints).

Is that true? I didn't know that.

I know that no fuel surcharges (indeed, no co-pay at all) applies to NZ domestic bookings using Airpoints Dollars. Thought the rest it still applies, and I assume NZ do pass this down. (I've heard that NZ can pass down YQ when other *A FFPs book NZ metal award seats).

I thought there were still ancilliary charges to be paid on Trans-Tasman. Given that this component is always rather high in comparison to the total fare (i.e. paying a cash fare on sale), I would've never picked NZ Trans-Tasman as a good value redemption for Airpoints Dollars.

Short stop runs are good for racking status points / credits if that is the system of the FFP, or redemption points / miles if there are good minimums available (also good for sectors if using one of the USA-based FFPs). On the whole, though, many of the *A FFPs' status counting is based on mileage.

 

[dajop]

Is that true? I didn't know that.

I know that no fuel surcharges (indeed, no co-pay at all) applies to NZ domestic bookings using Airpoints Dollars. Thought the rest it still applies, and I assume NZ do pass this down. (I've heard that NZ can pass down YQ when other *A FFPs book NZ metal award seats).

My most recent booking: SIN-LHR, total taxes: $27.50 NZD (SIN passenger charge). YQ on SQ on this sector is around $215 SGD (NZD). Now the downside is the $100 service fee, but that can be paid with airpoints, and I factor that in to the total airpoints required, and not as bad if shared across a return flight. The YQ was supposedly built into the points tables when they were increased several years back.

 

[3eef]

So if I sign up for kris flyer and "claim" the missing points for the last 4 months (5x syd sin in sq business) will they credit the $ value?!

 

[penegal]

So if I sign up for kris flyer and "claim" the missing points for the last 4 months (5x syd sin in sq business) will they credit the $ value?!

The flight miles can only be credited once. So, if you credited them to BD, then you can't double dip, but they may still give you the PPS $ value on a retroactive basis. Not sure if an online claim will do this, or whether you may need to call them.

If the flight miles have not yet been credited anywhere, then you should get both (flight miles and PPS value) with an online retroactive claim.