What is a shadow ? (Qantas )

[amaroo]

I enjoyed a triple shadow on a QFLink flight this week

 

[NZ_Flyer]

I feel that shadow is done by a computer algorithm based on status and loading, just like award upgrade. I have had a few shadows as WP in my recent flights and notice low loading in the Y cabin. The check in agents often confirm (without me asking) that the seat next to me is empty. I have also had a few flight in Y without a shadow. they were pretty full though.
PS: most of my flights are international.

Yep it’s supposedly done on a computer algorithm. So if the loadings are light then shadows are given to pax based on their status. So if a SG gets an auto shadow it’s because the loads are light, and there are enough “shadow allocations” still available after the system giving shadows to WP/P1/CL. If the flight starts getting full then shadows are taken away based on lower status first. Shadows can generally be relied upon up until check-in close (provided more seats don’t get sold/used). Then you never know as the gate agents allocate seats to standby pax, pax transferred onto the flight due to missed connections/cancellations etc - and that process is manual and as others have said they don’t care about shadows for status pax - they just need to get those people into a seat before the door closes

 

[sxc]

The algorithm is called theoretical seating - it’s a function of Amadeus.

 

[tdimdad]

The theoretical seating has more theories to it than my brains can take in.
What seemed like a shadow on Expertflyer, was gone couple of days ago by someone deciding 62C the best seat in the house and selecting it. I'm, of course, flattered to get an honour to be seated next to them but on a 15 h flight would still prefer differently to be duller and more solitary. And why that one when there were perfectly fine, better seats available???

What's peculiar is that EF showed row 63 as partially blocked but the QF MMB displayed them as fully available. The blocked one (A) went to a bronze on a separate booking and I took B, essentially just switching us both one row back. Now 62A is blocked in EF and QF MMB shows both 62A and 62B unavailable. Go figure - talk about dark magic here...

 

[RichardMEL]

I noticed on recent trips in MH J short haul blocks all through J(including next to me) were consistent - seems like MH tries a bit harder but again I have no evidence to say it was status based other than my own anecdotal experience.

Again though, the real issue here, as far as I am concerned, is the *expectation* of a undefined benefit. I feel some people may get peed off if they don't get a spare seat next to them because of whatever status level they may be.. and that's not always fair in my view.

Plus don't forget often gate agents at the last minute clearing standbys or whatever will just place peoiple wherever, which is why you may board and sit in row 4 and have a bronze or something sitting next to you and wonder how that happens (either that or a T-80 selection).

And again it seems like no effort was made when it likely was per the algorithm but things can and do change last minute.

 

[woodborer]

The algorithm is called theoretical seating - it’s a function of Amadeus.

More specifically, I think the functionality is in Altéa

 

[woodborer]

The theoretical seating has more theories to it than my brains can take in.
What seemed like a shadow on Expertflyer, was gone couple of days ago by someone deciding 62C the best seat in the house and selecting it. I'm, of course, flattered to get an honour to be seated next to them but on a 15 h flight would still prefer differently to be duller and more solitary. And why that one when there were perfectly fine, better seats available???

The problem with theoretical seating is that you can't tell what anyone else gets to choose from. It varies from person to person on the flight.
To understand why 62C, you'd need to know what they could see as their options.

 

[Ade]

Reading about the "Shadows" for the first time today and realized something.

I'm QF Gold

I was on a QF service from SYD to MEL (QF459, 1800 hours) on 08 June 2019, seated on 14D - next seat 14E was empty. Although this seat was blocked when I tried to select the exit row on the app or at check-in desk

On the return service MEL to SYD on 10 June 2019 (QF404, I guess, 0630 hours) - I was on 4F and 4E was empty and the lady of 4D was a QF Platinum. Same as above, 4E was blocked in the app or at check-in. In this case may be the shadow was of the lady with QF Plat and not mine

May be the "shadow" is at play ?

 

[p--and--t]

For my 2cents worth the whole process is both far more complex and random than many may take into account.

While I have no facts to base the following, here goes:

Algorithm:

• A plane must have balanced load to manage COE - very high priority for half empty plane, less so for almost full - and will change markedly as the plane fills up.
• There are various "statused" people (is that a word) that constantly change their mind on which flight they are taking dropping out and coming back and also using MMB to change seats
• There new sales
• There are cancellations
• Shadows being accommodated where possible for Statused people
• Various rules about exit row seating
• Potential off duty staff being ferried
• Groupings of passengers on a single PNR
• Ages of passengers (minors) that must be appropriately accommodated
• Potential usage of bassinets
• Passengers registering special needs (physical impairment etc)
• Identified faulty or impaired seat/row requiring maintenance

Last minute agent decisions:

• Last minute accommodations for passengers missing earlier connecting flights
• Departure time is being threatened - seat passengers as far forward as possible in last 20mins
• Last minute check-ins
• Lounge requests for revised seating
• Passengers with short connection times at other end needing to get off quickly
• Accommodating passengers from cancelled flights
• I'm under pressure / tired / near end of shift - just stick him/her in a seat.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

3 days out on my next trans Tasman I've had a seat block applied in the adjacent row 4 seat.

 

[RickyT84]

Reading about the "Shadows" for the first time today and realized something.

I'm QF Gold

I was on a QF service from SYD to MEL (QF459, 1800 hours) on 08 June 2019, seated on 14D - next seat 14E was empty. Although this seat was blocked when I tried to select the exit row on the app or at check-in desk

On the return service MEL to SYD on 10 June 2019 (QF404, I guess, 0630 hours) - I was on 4F and 4E was empty and the lady of 4D was a QF Platinum. Same as above, 4E was blocked in the app or at check-in. In this case may be the shadow was of the lady with QF Plat and not mine

May be the "shadow" is at play ?

The 'shadow' for your return flight from MEL is most likely to be your seat mate in 4D and IIRC exit row are almost always 'blocked' due to the additional pax requirements.

For reference, I am a QF SG and there was no 'shadow' on my flight from BNE to SYD yesterday (I was in 4D and my partner which is a PS was in 4F) as 4E can be selected on the QF app and online.

 

[RickyT84]

Yep it’s supposedly done on a computer algorithm. So if the loadings are light then shadows are given to pax based on their status. So if a SG gets an auto shadow it’s because the loads are light, and there are enough “shadow allocations” still available after the system giving shadows to WP/P1/CL.

This was certainly the case on my flight from HVB to BNE last night as both myself (SG) and my partner (PS) were given automatically given a 'shadow' (we were allocated different rows) due to the extremely light load with only 28 pax on the 74 seat Q400.

 

[RichardMEL]

So I flew over the weekend and noticed I had a block next to me in J. For S&G I moved seats and yep, it followed me which was a bit of fun.

Of course, as almost is usual, it evaporated after I boarded and J filled up. Actually refreshing of EF while sitting there was kind of interesting as I noticed J go from 5(4+1block) unallocated to 3(still the block) then the block disappeared and it was the only open seat, and finally a few minutes later the seat was taken (it was staff travel).

So I guess it did seem the intent there was to keep that as long as possible based on how it appeared to me.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

For RichardMEL, I would guess/dare to say, that that staff member probably had to fill the seat, (wink wink), otherwise, they probably would have kept that J seat shadow for you.
If it wasn't a staff member, they probably would have kept it empty.

 

[RichardMEL]

It was a staff member on pass travel. it was not positive space.

Hence the whole point I've tried to make endelessly that so called shadows are NOT guanranteed (nor published) and people need to remember that seats will be filled by standbys (revenue or staff) if they need them

(and for those in J, often NRSA do wnd up in J ahead of Y to my observation)

 

[Rangalad]

Chairman’s Lounge 1A me 1C. Everyone else had shadows. All on staff travel or not frequent flyers.

 

[BD1959]

I enjoyed a triple shadow on a QFLink flight this week

Is the collective noun for a shadow "an eclipse"? \\

Regards,

BD

 

[p--and--t]

Is the collective noun for a shadow "an eclipse"? \\

Regards,

BD

Where is the groan button

 

[Max Samuels]

I'm checked in on QF79 tomorrow in Y..... 2-4-2 config. I'm seated in a window seat and the seat next to me is blocked on EF although it is available for me to select through the QF webiste.
The row behind me is also blocked in EF - but NOT available to me on the QF webiste.

So if all goes well, i might get all 4 seats to myself! Mini business class!

Fingers crossed....

 

[PineappleSkip]

Good old days when WP was way cool and P1 didn’t exist.

DXB-LHR, Pineapple in J, bulkhead 11A, with 11B shadow (?) and the cabin otherwise full. Mrs pineapple in Y+, 24K IIRC. Mention this in passing after meal to nice cabin crew lady, who notes empty 11B and ushers Mrs Pineapple into my shadow for a visit. Nice cabin crew lady later extends the visit to landing at LHR and collects Mrs Pineapple’s cabin bag from Y+.

Only time ever that Mrs Pineapple was happy to be in my shadow .

Cheers skip