Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[AuSammy]

If ....no, When the routes, schedules or fares that an airline can offer out of WSI starts being more attractive !

…and travellers will factor in ground transport costs, schedule and convenience into their judgment call of whether to select a flight from WSI or SYD.

 

[dajop]

L

I'm a big fan of metros, but in this case I don't think that is good enough for WSI <> CBD.

It's a heck of a long way to travel with luggage on a regular metro train full of regular commuters. They are talking 70 minutes and it will also involve at least one change of trains at St Mary's.

Sounds just like JFK!

 

[serfty]

...
Look at what our Asian neighbours are doing. Kuala Lumpur is another example. Similar distance to the city, but only 30mins by express train, which is unaffected by road traffic.

Also has 'limousine' 1 hr bus services for around $5 one way every 20 minutes - far more comfortable seating than typical buses.

 

[offshore171]

L

Sounds just like JFK!

America is to trains what pineapple is to pizza

 

[SeatBackForward]

…and travellers will factor in ground transport costs, schedule and convenience into their judgment call of whether to select a flight from WSI or SYD.

Definitely, it's already a factor (albeit not an option) when figuring out flights to/from SYD.

 

[Aeryn]

Supposedly a selling point of WSI is no curfew but WSI doesnt have affordable transport to CBD, Inner West, Inner South, Eastern or Northern burbs during SYD curfew.

…and travellers will factor in ground transport costs, schedule and convenience into their judgment call of whether to select a flight from WSI or SYD.

Exactly that extra 1hr + travel time and significant extra cost will make WSI unattrative for everyone east of Paramatta and Bankstown or North of City (northern Beaches to Gordon). Save $50 on a flight but spend $200 on an uber/taxi to get there or home from there in middle of the night when PT doesnt run.

If due to SYD curfew they divert planes to WSI, the airline would need to have busses on standby to drive most passengers back to SYD or be up for significant compensation costs for the extra uber/taxi fares that passenger wouod not have had plane landed at SYD.

There is already a huge shortage of busses and bus drivers in Sydney due to metro build closing train lines. Airlines wont just be able to get busses for diversions.

I would never voluntarily use WSI but its opening has huge potential to strand SYD passengers there if there are late night diversions. We need airlines to gurantee how passengers wouod be compensated if they end up there late night/early morning.

 

[elanshin]

I'm a big fan of metros, but in this case I don't think that is good enough for WSI <> CBD.

It's a heck of a long way to travel with luggage on a regular metro train full of regular commuters. They are talking 70 minutes and it will also involve at least one change of trains at St Mary's.

It will have to do I guess, but it is far removed from a dedicated express train, which is what is needed when building a new airport 70km from a major city in the 21st century

Its not there day 1 and thats fine. Its there on the transport masteplan. When and if it will be built is another question.

In fact there's 2 different lines to the cbd (leppington extension and western metro extension) in the plans.

You could argue that neither is a true express of sorts but until WSI starts handling 20m+ passengers we probably don't need a dedicated express - just a reasonably direct fast train.

And most people have discussed at length, in theory the average person journeying to WSI is not looking to go to the CBD (unless WSI turns into a low cost alternative). You're better looking at how they'd connect to Parramatta, MacArthur region, Blacktown region.

 

[RooFlyer]

This thing needs a fast, dedicated train to the city.

Along the lines of. Narita Express, Heathrow Express, Leonardo Express etc.

So please tell us the capacity of those airports when the train lines opened, and the year when WSI will reach those figures. That’s about when a train will be necessary.

Narita was operating for many years before it got rail.

 

[jase05]

I would never voluntarily use WSI but its opening has huge potential to strand SYD passengers there if there are late night diversions. We need airlines to gurantee how passengers wouod be compensated if they end up there late night/early morning.

Even if airlines had to pay for everyone to get a taxi it’s still far cheaper than coughing up accomodation costs in Brisbane, Melbourne or wherever else they are diverted. I’m sure the airlines already have some sort of understanding and plans for diversions at WSI but I dare say the bulk of passengers arriving would be more than happy just to be in the same city than stranded in some other state

 

[SeatBackForward]

I would never voluntarily use WSI but its opening has huge potential to strand SYD passengers there if there are late night diversions.

I'd say the vast majority of people would rather be stranded near their destination than have to be dverted back to their origin

We need airlines to gurantee how passengers wouod be compensated if they end up there late night/early morning.

This mechanism already exists for any other diversion.

 

[mrsterryn]

If talking costs of transport and the inconvenience of changing from bus to train, don't forget mascot domestic and international still have that gate fee .

 

[SYD]

So please tell us the capacity of those airports when the train lines opened, and the year when WSI will reach those figures. That’s about when a train will be necessary.

Narita was operating for many years before it got rail.

For LHR, HEX only opened in 1989. Even the Tube was very late 1979(?). LHR became “Heathrow” in the 1950s.

LGW was always on the southern rail corridor but started the GEX in the early 1980s (but still decades after opening).

MEL, 50+ years old….

 

[mrsterryn]

Will wsi take the delayed flights out of Curfew time from mascot if needed ?

 

[Aeryn]

Will wsi take the delayed flights out of Curfew time from mascot if needed ?

It is a real risk especially for aircraaft types that will be supported at WSI. But id rather stay as my departure point and fly next day than end up in same state but so far from actual home in a fight for a uber/taxi (if you can even get one so far from city in wee hours) that will cost more than a MEL-SYD flight and more than a night at the Ibis at MEL.

If they tell passengers before departure about the diversion, id be requesting to be moved to a morning flight. Better get good night sleep at hotel and fly next day than trying to get home from WSI in wee hours and getting no sleep.

 

[dairyfloss]

Will wsi take the delayed flights out of Curfew time from mascot if needed ?

Given the disruption to all manor of things (pax, crew, freight, onward movements for the frame), I'd expect if they knew this ahead of departure from the point of origin that they wouldn't even depart. They may well divert though if en route and are held due to weather or other events, assuming it's closer to continue to WSI then to return to the point of origin. We've probably got some planners on here who would know the actual protocols?

 

[SeaWolf]

The reality is that there will be a train to the airport fairly shortly after the airport opens (and certainly faster than the 80 years it took SYD to get one), it's just that it won't be "one seat" to the CBD. My feeling is that'll be fine, it's not "one seat" to the CBD in Singapore either and that's a very good service, even though it isn't express to the city. As long as the design at St Mary's station is good to allow easy transfers with luggage, and the timetables are adjusted to facilitate easy connections I reckon it's going to be a hell of a lot better than most secondary airports around the world start off with.

And of course, as others have pointed out, it's likely the bulk of the passengers won't be going to and from the CBD anyway. They'll have chosen to fly to/from WSI specifically because it's convenient for them (either because of location or cheaper, easier long term parking).

Only time will tell and it'll definitely be a few years before we know how successful the airport is. But I get the distinct feeling that many on this thread will be declaring it a failure and a white elephant simply because it won't be operating at maximum capacity by day 2. God forbid we build anything in this country with room for future growth!

 

[AuSammy]

But I get the distinct feeling that many on this thread will be declaring it a failure and a white elephant simply because it won't be operating at maximum capacity by day 2

...or suit their personal circumstance, which is not it's intended purpose.

 

[stu961]

Most government projects go through a theoretical ROI process to decide where to spend the tax payers dollars. For an airport that won’t have oodles of passengers for maybe a decade ot two, it wouldn’t measure up when compared to other priorities. It wasn’t until 2000 that SYD got a rail link despite being at the time the busiest airport in the country.

Yup, airport wouldn't have got off the ground if they priced in a train from day one....

 

[Ansett Nostalgic]

WSI should have fast trains in multiple directions, going out to Penrith, north into the Hills, south to Campbelltown, and east towards the city.