Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[offshore171]

It wasn’t until 2000 that SYD got a rail link despite being at the time the busiest airport in the country.

Obviously a 100 year old airport, 10km from the CBD is a different scenario. Sydney had 1/6th of the population when Kingsford Smith was established.

I did say new builds far from the city. This joint is what, 65km out, and is opening in 2026? It should have a dedicated express train.

At busy times on the road, it's 1.5 hours of stop start traffic. If there's a crash or breakdowns, that can blow out to 2hours.

Look at what our Asian neighbours are doing. Kuala Lumpur is another example. Similar distance to the city, but only 30mins by express train, which is unaffected by road traffic.

 

[kamchatsky]

This thing needs a fast, dedicated train to the city.

Along the lines of. Narita Express, Heathrow Express, Leonardo Express etc.

That’s what’s needed when you build new airports far out from the city in the 21st century.

Especially in a major 5 million pop city.

Should have been in the plans from day 1

If HSR actually gets built, then that would take care of this requirement. Of course, that won't happen until 2040's, if it happens at all.

Then again, SYD is still operating so until SYD shuts down, WSI direct fast train requirement to city is optional, especially MEL doesn't even have one now.

 

[AuSammy]

Obviously a 100 year old airport, 10km from the CBD is a different scenario. Sydney had 1/6th of the population when Kingsford Smith was established.

I did say new builds far from the city. This joint is what, 65km out, and is opening in 2026? It should have a dedicated express train.

At busy times on the road, it's 1.5 hours of stop start traffic. If there's a crash or breakdowns, that can blow out to 2hours.

Look at what our Asian neighbours are doing. Kuala Lumpur is another example. Similar distance to the city, but only 30mins by express train, which is unaffected by road traffic.

KL doesn't have a convenient alternate airport close to the city as its prime airport. WSI is not intended for Eastern suburb and city centre folks and is not a replacement for SYD

Why would anyone living on the beaches and city area not select the most appropriate airport for their travel?

Travellers don’t seem to have trouble differentiating between MEL and AVV

 

[SeatBackForward]

Why would anyone living on the beaches and city area not select the most appropriate airport for their travel?

If ....no, When the routes, schedules or fares that an airline can offer out of WSI starts being more attractive !

 

[SYD]

This thing needs a fast, dedicated train to the city.

Along the lines of. Narita Express, Heathrow Express, Leonardo Express etc.

That’s what’s needed when you build new airports far out from the city in the 21st century.

Especially in a major 5 million pop city.

Should have been in the plans from day 1

The metro will traverse a fair chunk of the Western Sydney airport catchment. Yes, it’s a shame it won’t be operating on day one, but that was the original plan.

If ....no, When the routes, schedules or fares that an airline can offer out of WSI starts being more attractive !

There is already a price discount on some SQ fares to Europe ex WSI but still probably not great enough to entice peeps from the East/Northern Beaches just yet. But once more operators start, I’m sure some will happily do it. They’ll already have their PPs in hand…

 

[offshore171]

Would be needed if WSI was a replacement airport for SYD. Its not.

Fair to an extent. But without the express rail service (or at least a provision for one), you're kinda limiting what it can ever become. A self fulfilling prophecy if you will. It doesn't seem particularly visionary.

Basically it will be limited to an airport for cargo and a few international passenger services with limited appeal to inbound tourists.


Once cities hit 5-6million+, they really need a scalable second passenger airport to share the load (eg: Seoul, NYC, London, Tokyo etc). Particularly if the first one is subject to strict curfews.


Has there been any discussion of a downtown check-in system (eg: like HK)? That would help.

 

[offshore171]

The metro will traverse a fair chunk of the Western Sydney airport catchment. Yes, it’s a shame it won’t be operating on day one, but that was the original plan.

I'm a big fan of metros, but in this case I don't think that is good enough for WSI <> CBD.

It's a heck of a long way to travel with luggage on a regular metro train full of regular commuters. They are talking 70 minutes and it will also involve at least one change of trains at St Mary's.

It will have to do I guess, but it is far removed from a dedicated express train, which is what is needed when building a new airport 70km from a major city in the 21st century

 

[AuSammy]

If ....no, When the routes, schedules or fares that an airline can offer out of WSI starts being more attractive !

…and travellers will factor in ground transport costs, schedule and convenience into their judgment call of whether to select a flight from WSI or SYD.

 

[dajop]

L

I'm a big fan of metros, but in this case I don't think that is good enough for WSI <> CBD.

It's a heck of a long way to travel with luggage on a regular metro train full of regular commuters. They are talking 70 minutes and it will also involve at least one change of trains at St Mary's.

Sounds just like JFK!

 

[serfty]

...
Look at what our Asian neighbours are doing. Kuala Lumpur is another example. Similar distance to the city, but only 30mins by express train, which is unaffected by road traffic.

Also has 'limousine' 1 hr bus services for around AU$5 one way every 20 minutes - far more comfortable seating than typical buses.

 

[offshore171]

L

Sounds just like JFK!

America is to trains what pineapple is to pizza

 

[SeatBackForward]

…and travellers will factor in ground transport costs, schedule and convenience into their judgment call of whether to select a flight from WSI or SYD.

Definitely, it's already a factor (albeit not an option) when figuring out flights to/from SYD.

 

[Aeryn]

Supposedly a selling point of WSI is no curfew but WSI doesnt have affordable transport to CBD, Inner West, Inner South, Eastern or Northern burbs during SYD curfew.

…and travellers will factor in ground transport costs, schedule and convenience into their judgment call of whether to select a flight from WSI or SYD.

Exactly that extra 1hr + travel time and significant extra cost will make WSI unattrative for everyone east of Paramatta and Bankstown or North of City (northern Beaches to Gordon). Save $50 on a flight but spend $200 on an uber/taxi to get there or home from there in middle of the night when PT doesnt run.

If due to SYD curfew they divert planes to WSI, the airline would need to have busses on standby to drive most passengers back to SYD or be up for significant compensation costs for the extra uber/taxi fares that passenger wouod not have had plane landed at SYD.

There is already a huge shortage of busses and bus drivers in Sydney due to metro build closing train lines. Airlines wont just be able to get busses for diversions.

I would never voluntarily use WSI but its opening has huge potential to strand SYD passengers there if there are late night diversions. We need airlines to gurantee how passengers wouod be compensated if they end up there late night/early morning.

 

[elanshin]

I'm a big fan of metros, but in this case I don't think that is good enough for WSI <> CBD.

It's a heck of a long way to travel with luggage on a regular metro train full of regular commuters. They are talking 70 minutes and it will also involve at least one change of trains at St Mary's.

It will have to do I guess, but it is far removed from a dedicated express train, which is what is needed when building a new airport 70km from a major city in the 21st century

Its not there day 1 and thats fine. Its there on the transport masteplan. When and if it will be built is another question.

In fact there's 2 different lines to the cbd (leppington extension and western metro extension) in the plans.

You could argue that neither is a true express of sorts but until WSI starts handling 20m+ passengers we probably don't need a dedicated express - just a reasonably direct fast train.

And most people have discussed at length, in theory the average person journeying to WSI is not looking to go to the CBD (unless WSI turns into a low cost alternative). You're better looking at how they'd connect to Parramatta, MacArthur region, Blacktown region.

 

[RooFlyer]

This thing needs a fast, dedicated train to the city.

Along the lines of. Narita Express, Heathrow Express, Leonardo Express etc.

So please tell us the capacity of those airports when the train lines opened, and the year when WSI will reach those figures. That’s about when a train will be necessary.

Narita was operating for many years before it got rail.

 

[jase05]

I would never voluntarily use WSI but its opening has huge potential to strand SYD passengers there if there are late night diversions. We need airlines to gurantee how passengers wouod be compensated if they end up there late night/early morning.

Even if airlines had to pay for everyone to get a taxi it’s still far cheaper than coughing up accomodation costs in Brisbane, Melbourne or wherever else they are diverted. I’m sure the airlines already have some sort of understanding and plans for diversions at WSI but I dare say the bulk of passengers arriving would be more than happy just to be in the same city than stranded in some other state

 

[SeatBackForward]

I would never voluntarily use WSI but its opening has huge potential to strand SYD passengers there if there are late night diversions.

I'd say the vast majority of people would rather be stranded near their destination than have to be dverted back to their origin

We need airlines to gurantee how passengers wouod be compensated if they end up there late night/early morning.

This mechanism already exists for any other diversion.

 

[mrsterryn]

If talking costs of transport and the inconvenience of changing from bus to train, don't forget mascot domestic and international still have that gate fee .

 

[SYD]

So please tell us the capacity of those airports when the train lines opened, and the year when WSI will reach those figures. That’s about when a train will be necessary.

Narita was operating for many years before it got rail.

For LHR, HEX only opened in 1989. Even the Tube was very late 1979(?). LHR became “Heathrow” in the 1950s.

LGW was always on the southern rail corridor but started the GEX in the early 1980s (but still decades after opening).

MEL, 50+ years old….

 

[mrsterryn]

Will wsi take the delayed flights out of Curfew time from mascot if needed ?