Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[moa999]

Of course there will be lounges. The naysayers talk like it’s a tin shed being built out there.

It has 8 gates (albeit some multi use). As a size comparator it's probably close to T3 (the Qantas terminal) at SYD.

I suspect it will open with a number of closed spaces for future loungesm

 

[Himeno]

It has 8 gates (albeit some multi use). As a size comparator it's probably close to T3 (the Qantas terminal) at SYD.

I suspect it will open with a number of closed spaces for future loungesm

The stage 1 airport map has 13 stands, 7 with air bridges. Each stand able to take 2 narrow bodies or 1 wide body.

https://westernsydney.com.au/sites/default/files/2024-04/Airport%20Site%20Layout%2010%20MAP.pdf

 

[justinbrett]

Because as sad as the reality is, Sydney (and maybe a small population that knows Melbourne) is "Australia" to the rest of the world. So the marketing to fly to "Sydney" even if its WSI will far surpass anything regional.

Also I could see QF shift flights like SYD - BLR over to WSI to better suit the customer base. Expansion into India should surely be on QFs radar and OWs.

Have to also remember that WSI is a lot more convenient for actually quite a lot of people in western Sydney than SYD is.

QF has never even operated a domestic service to AVV. Whilst I think the market is there in WSI for domestic routes like BNE/MEL, and possibly other domestic destinations, it’s a huge leap to say they’ll be operating to international destinations, especially when major cities like ADL can barely get any routes. If there was a fast rail service to the CBD it would be more viable, but as it is now it will be a metro to St Mary’s and then a one hour train to Central.

To follow your analogy, a tourist flying in expecting to see SYD, faced with 90 minutes of public transport to see actual Sydney, is going to feel very much ripped off. It reminds me of the Ryanair pax flying into “Paris” BVA airport.

There’s a place for WSI to serve the Western Sydney population, but pretending it’s Sydney Actual is going to end in tears.

When has Qantas not been attracted to cost-cutting?

And that’s when they send in JQ. Not mainline.

Yes, but they are unimportant. Sydney is the center of Qantas' universe.

WSI is not SYD.

 

[RooFlyer]

WSI is not SYD.

Yes, but it is Sydney which is what I said, not SYD, but to be more precise its closer to Mascot than the outer planets like MEL or ADL.

 

[justinbrett]

Yes, but it is Sydney which is what I said, not SYD, but to be more precise its closer to Mascot than the outer planets like MEL or ADL.

I’d argue it’s not Sydney.

Western Sydney is a whole other thing.

Even Parramatta is closer to SYD than WSI.

 

[elanshin]

QF has never even operated a domestic service to AVV. Whilst I think the market is there in WSI for domestic routes like BNE/MEL, and possibly other domestic destinations, it’s a huge leap to say they’ll be operating to international destinations, especially when major cities like ADL can barely get any routes. If there was a fast rail service to the CBD it would be more viable, but as it is now it will be a metro to St Mary’s and then a one hour train to Central.

To follow your analogy, a tourist flying in expecting to see SYD, faced with 90 minutes of public transport to see actual Sydney, is going to feel very much ripped off. It reminds me of the Ryanair pax flying into “Paris” BVA airport.

Many major cities need a solid hour+ to get to the city centre. If anything flying into SYD is the exception on global scale for the primary airport being so close. I'd have loved to fly to TSA Songshan airport in Taipei a couple of weeks ago but the majority of flights go to TPE which technically isnt even in the same city. Or ICN, NRT, PVG, CDG, LHR etc. They're all a significant way out of the "city".

 

[SYD]

I’d argue it’s not Sydney.

Western Sydney is a whole other thing.

Even Parramatta is closer to SYD than WSI.

It’s ~60km from me in the East. Even further from anyone on the North Shore. But unlike getting to AVV from Melbourne CBD, there’s great tracks of greater Sydney you need to traverse to get there - which actually means that there’s a significantly bigger catchment for WSI than AVV.

Stick in a fast train and it could be ADL’s 2nd airport with QFi services…too soon?

 

[Lynda2475]

I’d argue it’s not Sydney.

Definitely not Sydney no matter what they call it.

 

[justinbrett]

It’s ~60km from me in the East. Even further from anyone on the North Shore. But unlike getting to AVV from Melbourne CBD, there’s great tracks of greater Sydney you need to traverse to get there - which actually means that there’s a significantly bigger catchment for WSI than AVV.

Stick in a fast train and it could be ADL’s 2nd airport with QFi services…too soon?

The lack of a direct train service to the CBD is one of the main reasons it unlikely to replace SYD in the foreseeable future.

The catchment area of WSI, who are closer to it than SYD, is probably at best a population comparable to Adelaide. But to be frank, a much poorer demographic, and far fewer businesses that require access to domestic and international travel.

 

[moa999]

But it was never designed as a replacement airport.

It's not a new HKG or new IST.
Or even an attempt like NRT (mostly successful) or YMX (Montreal Mirabel - a disaster).

It's been designed as a 2nd airport, serving a mostly different catchment and providing minor relief to SYD.

 

[SCM]

If we can move all cargo operations to WSI (makes sense as it's a 24x7 airport), and some portion of local routes, then SYD be freed up to have more international routes, which would be amazing.

 

[pauly7]

Was going to say exactly the same thing. Various carriers have banks of flights during that time window out of MEL (TG, MH, SQ, FJ, CX,) so wouldn't be surprised if at least one of them might schedule a midnight service out of WSI to connect with their morning bank of flights. Before Covid, SQ used to do such a service out of SYD, leaving mid evening via CBR.

One thing to also consider is the inbound flight connections, I remember reading about a year ago that about 40% of inbound SYD full service carrier flights can connect onwards - which means that QF in particular will need some trunk routes in place to support all their interline partners onwards connection requirements (or, that traffic automatically will still be captured by SYD).

 

[RooFlyer]

I’d argue it’s not Sydney.

Western Sydney is a whole other thing.

Whatever that means. I take Western Sydney to mean the western part of ... Sydney

But anyway, WSI will service anyone who wants to be on a flight departing/arriving from that airport#. From/to Sydney CBD, Penrith, Turramurra and even Parramatta.

# Like Jetstar, as you pointed out. But I think the fuller service airlines will also push people to WSI via pricing and scheduling to free up space at SYD.

Time will tell.

 

[dajop]

One thing to also consider is the inbound flight connections, I remember reading about a year ago that about 40% of inbound SYD full service carrier flights can connect onwards - which means that QF in particular will need some trunk routes in place to support all their interline partners onwards connection requirements (or, that traffic automatically will still be captured by SYD).

Not as relevant for the carriers I mentioned (notice I didn’t mention QF), at the time of day I mentioned. Indeed they operate such services into MEL with no inbound connections at that time of night, connections for these flights happen at the respective airlines hubs.

If there was no curfew at SYD it wouldn’t even be a consideration, but as there is, it is not out of the realm of possibilities that they are at least considering such services.

 

[justinbrett]

Whatever that means. I take Western Sydney to mean the western part of ... Sydney

But anyway, WSI will service anyone who wants to be on a flight departing/arriving from that airport#. From/to Sydney CBD, Penrith, Turramurra and even Parramatta.

# Like Jetstar, as you pointed out. But I think the fuller service airlines will also push people to WSI via pricing and scheduling to free up space at SYD.

Time will tell.

It’s the established plan of the NSW government to treat Sydney as three separate cities - one of which is Western Sydney - referred to as the Western Parkland city. https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2024-04/greater-sydney-region-plan.pdf

The lack of fast transport to the CBD will be a limiting factor for many, and is in my opinion why AVV was never a viable second Melbourne airport - it serves Geelong and the surrounding area, and LCCs.

 

[elanshin]

It’s the established plan of the NSW government to treat Sydney as three separate cities - one of which is Western Sydney - referred to as the Western Parkland city. https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2024-04/greater-sydney-region-plan.pdf

The lack of fast transport to the CBD will be a limiting factor for many, and is in my opinion why AVV was never a viable second Melbourne airport - it serves Geelong and the surrounding area, and LCCs.

The key difference is that AVV lacks a lot of infrastructure at all levels to compare.

They're talking WSI up to have the most advanced terminal facility stuff of all airports in Australia - facial recognition stuff like in Changi or HKG etc.
They're actively targeting it to be a world clsss in airport facility.

I could see AVV being utilised more if it had aerobridges, better terminal facilities and a better connection. In fact if today if you could land at AVV, roll through the aerobridge into a nice terminal straight onto a regular (less than 15mins interval) train that takes 45mins into Southern Cross or Geelong in 30, I'd reckon you have a lot more uptake in usage.

In fact they really should look to improve AVV. MEL t2 in it's current form will really get congested even more if the city wants to continue to grow into the future. The arrivals at MEL T2 honestly is a lot worse than SYD T1 during peak periods.

 

[jase05]

The key difference is that AVV lacks a lot of infrastructure at all levels to compare.

They're talking WSI up to have the most advanced terminal facility stuff of all airports in Australia - facial recognition stuff like in Changi or HKG etc.
They're actively targeting it to be a world clsss in airport facility.

I could see AVV being utilised more if it had aerobridges, better terminal facilities and a better connection. In fact if today if you could land at AVV, roll through the aerobridge into a nice terminal straight onto a regular (less than 15mins interval) train that takes 45mins into Southern Cross or Geelong in 30, I'd reckon you have a lot more uptake in usage.

In fact they really should look to improve AVV. MEL t2 in it's current form will really get congested even more if the city wants to continue to grow into the future. The arrivals at MEL T2 honestly is a lot worse than SYD T1 during peak periods.

Definitely ambitious but eventually the plans are for WSI to be the busiest airport in the country in several decades. Time will tell but at least the government are thinking of the future and WSI will from opening date have world class facilities. Domestically it will definitely become my go to airport as it suits my needs and it will be nice to travel via Sydney and avoid the absolute debacle that SYD currently is

 

[RooFlyer]

Domestically it will definitely become my go to airport as it suits my needs and it will be nice to travel via Sydney and avoid the absolute debacle that SYD currently is

That's what I'm hoping/expecting. I travel HBA-BNE quite a bit these days and while there is a direct flight, sometimes a connecting one is better.

 

[Lynda2475]

They're actively targeting it to be a world class in airport facility.

It can never be as good as SYD based on the fact unlike SYD it is absolutely no where near Sydney proper.

I am hopeful that premium services which have F and J, and the most profitable golden triangle flights will remain at SYD; as if you visiting Sydney you will want to have fast and convenient transport to Sydney, not be trying to navigate from the very outer fringe of the outermost burbs.

A Taxi from WSI to the city at peak time could easily hit $200; and there is no door to door train service from the city, its 1-2 trains plus a switch to metro and over an hours assuming all connections are seamless which never happens on the Sydney Train network. Noting our 2 story trains are set up to accomodate luggage - no racks or storage areas.

Definitely ambitious but eventually the plans are for WSI to be the busiest airport in the country in several decades.

Maybe for freight but the location alone makes this ambition unrealistic for passenger travel.

 

[jase05]

It can never be as good as SYD based on the fact unlike SYD it is absolutely no where near Sydney proper.

I am hopeful that premium services which have F and J, and the most profitable golden triangle flights will remain at SYD; as if you visiting Sydney you will want to have fast and convenient transport to Sydney, not be trying to navigate from the very outer fringe of the outermost burbs.

A Taxi from WSI to the city at peak time could easily hit $200; and there is no door to door train service from the city, its 1-2 trains plus a switch to metro and over an hours assuming all connections are seamless which never happens on the Sydney Train network. Noting our 2 story trains are set up to accomodate luggage - no racks or storage areas.



Maybe for freight but the location alone makes this ambition unrealistic for passenger travel.

None of us have any idea what things will look like in 30-40 years time. WSI is being built for the future. Governments get canned for not thinking of the future so I’m pleased they have been proactive. The beauty is they have the land and can build for needs as the City and infrastructure grows. SYD has no room to grow so is contained to the dump of an airport it currently is.