Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[elanshin]

First jet aircraft to land at Sydney’s new airport as testing ramps up

The date has been set for the 737’s touchdown at the $6 billion Western Sydney Airport, a year out from the first passengers passing through its terminal.

www.smh.com.au

The NSW Rural Fire Service will land its Boeing 737 air tanker – named the Marie Bashir – on Western Sydney Airport’s new runway on October 28 as part of a multi-agency emergency exercise. The firebombing 737 will be used to test a full-scale response to a simulated aircraft emergency.

“737s are the most common plane in Australian skies and will be a mainstay on the runways and taxiways of Western Sydney International when it opens in the second half of 2026,” she said.

First 737 has now landed at WSI this morning.

 

[kamchatsky]

It is exciting to see the first 737 landing at WSI. Building a new airport is almost a once in a lifetime opportunity. By 2040 I expect that the nearby area will be completely filled with houses. So it is good that NSW and Federal Government actually planned and built this ahead for long term future.

 

[Ansett Nostalgic]

Surprised that the RFS has a 737!

 

[markis10]

Surprised that the RFS has a 737!

They have had it for a few years in conjunction with Coulson, following the NSCA model from the 80s equipment is used here for the fire season then heads to America for theirs. They also have a chinook, which was fighting fires on the north coast on the weekend when I spotted her from the Pacifiv highway.

Previously they leased Tanker 137, which crashed in WA Feb 23

NSW to acquire its own large air tanker

The New South Wales state government plans to acquire its own large air tanker (LAT), which will be the first of its kind to be permanently based in Australia.

australianaviation.com.au

 

[Doddler]

Just popping over from a Project Sunrise thread on the Qantas section, as we got talking about curfews at Sydney and if WSI would become a possibility for those flights. I think we all agreed that it wouldn't.

Now, for potential international flights to WSI, is domestic connectivity going to be key, or are there types of international arrivals that don't really need passengers being able to easily transfer elsewhere to be commercially viable?

 

[HS-TQE]

Just popping over from a Project Sunrise thread on the Qantas section, as we got talking about curfews at Sydney and if WSI would become a possibility for those flights. I think we all agreed that it wouldn't.

Now, for potential international flights to WSI, is domestic connectivity going to be key, or are there types of international arrivals that don't really need passengers being able to easily transfer elsewhere to be commercially viable?

The Qantas group (QF and JQ) has not confirmed any plans for international flights out of WSI and is unlikely to eventuate for the short term with the tiny chance of DPS.

DPS on JQ may be possible, but it would likely be at the expense of SYD capacity as part of the Indonesia-Australia bilateral.

Air New Zealand and Singapore Airlines flights from WSI to AKL and SIN respectively are likely to be almost entirely O&D from the WSI end., and likely timed to connect into their hub banks in AKL and SIN respectively.

NZ's former bilateral partner VA (now a unilateral Travel Agent partner of NZ) has zero influence on NZ's flying operations out of WSI and NZ's bilateral domestic partner QF will continue to have connections handled out of SYD.

Whilst VA current Asian region partner SQ are likely relying almost entirely on WSI O&D and seems to be doing regional flying themselves (CNS and DRW) instead of relying on VA for connections.

VA has not confirmed any plans for WSI flying and is increasingly unlikely to commence any WSI flying for NW26/27 with just over 11 months to go before WSI opens for passenger operations.

 

[justinbrett]

Just popping over from a Project Sunrise thread on the Qantas section, as we got talking about curfews at Sydney and if WSI would become a possibility for those flights. I think we all agreed that it wouldn't.

Now, for potential international flights to WSI, is domestic connectivity going to be key, or are there types of international arrivals that don't really need passengers being able to easily transfer elsewhere to be commercially viable?

For a full service carrier, it's best to view WSI as a separate destination to SYD similar to what OOL is to BNE. I can't see any full service airline serving a route to WSI instead of SYD. It will be both, or SYD only.

For that, really the only candidates that come to mind are SQ from SIN (just to have a flight within the curfew period), and NZ to AKL. My test, if the airline doesn't already operate to MEL and BNE, why would they serve both SYD & WSI but not #2 & #3?

So we might see Scoot, Air Asia, Batik etc move to WSI to reduce costs. But don't expect SYD to go down without a fight, they will suddenly find a way to incentivise those airlines to stay, especially the widebodies.

I think the only sure thing is that QF, VA and JQ will offer domestic flights to BNE and MEL, Probably a handful of other domestic destinations in time. Although VA hasn't announced they will fly from WSI, which is not exactly a vote of confidence in the airport considering we're within 12 months of opening. Surely they can't afford to cede the entire market.

 

[HS-TQE]

I think the only sure thing is that QF, VA and JQ will offer domestic flights to BNE and MEL, Probably a handful of other domestic destinations in time. Although VA hasn't announced they will fly from WSI, which is not exactly a vote of confidence in the airport considering we're within 12 months of opening. Surely they can't afford to cede the entire market.

VA doesn't really have the aircraft for WSI, as VA's aircraft deliveries (7M8s and E290s) are largely fleet replacement for the F100s, A320s and the older 738s coming off lease for the next 12 months and VA hasn't exactly shown interest let alone enthusiasm in WSI in the past 12 months, as VA has highlighted their own concerns with WSI.

I don't see a Rob Peter to Pay Paul situation to enable VA to service a limited WSI schedule within their current fleet, so I can see a scenario where VA cedes WSI entirely to the QF group for the first 12 months at the most before eventually entering in either mid NS27 or NW27/28 with a limited BNE and MEL schedule, aircraft availability permitting.

 

[justinbrett]

VA doesn't really have the aircraft for WSI, as VA's aircraft deliveries (7M8s and E290s) are largely fleet replacement for the F100s, A320s and the older 738s coming off lease for the next 12 months and VA hasn't exactly shown interest let alone enthusiasm in WSI in the past 12 months, as VA has highlighted their own concerns with WSI.

I don't see a Rob Peter to Pay Paul situation to enable VA to service a limited WSI schedule within their current fleet, so I can see a scenario where VA cedes WSI entirely to the QF group for the first 12 months at the most before eventually entering in either mid NS27 or NW27/28 with a limited BNE and MEL schedule, aircraft availability permitting.

It wouldn’t take much. Even one aircraft could do twice daily BNE and MEL (The frequency QF serves MEL/OOL). Two aircraft and you’re at the frequency QF serves SYD/OOL. You’re telling me every other route has such high loads none of these would get a look in?

I don’t think it’s about capacity. If they aren’t a launch airline it’s probably more of a principled stance (due to costs), and/or inability to maintain SYD slots.

I still think VA would be shooting themselves in the foot to gift QFg a full year to capture market share at what will become a major airport. That is, unless they really believe WSI will be a white elephant.

 

[HS-TQE]

I don’t think it’s about capacity. If they aren’t a launch airline it’s probably more of a principled stance (due to costs), and/or inability to maintain SYD slots.

I still think VA would be shooting themselves in the foot to gift QFg a full year to capture market share at what will become a major airport. That is, unless they really believe WSI will be a white elephant.

I'd agree with the principled stance and VA unwilling to give up SYD slots when VA doesn't have the extra mainline aircraft.

I also don't see VA deploying an extra Alliance F70 or F100 to replace two current ex-BNE mainline aircraft rotations on other routes to enable a twice-daily BNE-WSI with a mainline 738/7M8 when it opens in NW26/27. Although if WSI does 'perform'' to expectations (or even overperform), I can see such a situation happening when the NS27 season starts at the end of March.

If WSI does end up 'underperforming' domestically in their first 12 months, Bain could probably use that to justify their initial 'stay out' of WSI stance.

 

[justinbrett]

I'd agree with the principled stance and VA unwilling to give up SYD slots when VA doesn't have the extra mainline aircraft.

I also don't see VA deploying an extra Alliance F70 or F100 to replace two current ex-BNE mainline aircraft rotations on other routes to enable a twice-daily BNE-WSI with a mainline 738/7M8 when it opens in NW26/27. Although if WSI does 'perform'' to expectations (or even overperform), I can see such a situation happening when the NS27 season starts at the end of March.

If WSI does end up 'underperforming' domestically in their first 12 months, Bain could probably use that to justify their initial 'stay out' of WSI stance.

The problem with that is QF will have a monopoly, it can put on token capacity with high fares, which will effectively stunt the growth of the airport. I can see lots of carrots and sticks by the government (and WSI) to make it a success.

 

[Ansett Nostalgic]

QR might try WSI-DOH.

I would expect Scoot as well.

 

[markis10]

VA doesn't really have the aircraft for WSI, as VA's aircraft deliveries (7M8s and E290s) are largely fleet replacement for the F100s, A320s and the older 738s coming off lease for the next 12 months

Nothing stopping VA taking the QR Max fleet that are somewhat orphaned.

 

[justinbrett]

QR might try WSI-DOH.

Not a chance, They would have to give up capacity at SYD, as the Air Services Agreement caps don’t distinguish between the two airports,

 

[Harrison_133]

Nothing stopping VA taking the QR Max fleet that are somewhat orphaned.

They're going to Royal Air Maroc.

 

[kamchatsky]

Not a chance, They would have to give up capacity at SYD, as the Air Services Agreement caps don’t distinguish between the two airports,

I think that the government should separate WSI from Sydney metro so that there are more incentives for airlines to setup WSI services.

 

[justinbrett]

I think that the government should separate WSI from Sydney metro so that there are more incentives for airlines to setup WSI services.

It has to be done country by country as the bilateral agreement needs to be amended.

For some countries AVV is excluded from MEL, but for most it’s not.

 

[kamchatsky]

It has to be done country by country as the bilateral agreement needs to be amended.

For some countries AVV is excluded from MEL, but for most it’s not.

I wonder how it works though, given that these agreements were made well before WSI was even planned and built, so surely WSI automatically "falls outside" of those major cities' airports (SYD, MEL, BNE, PER) as it was never listed at the first place? Or is it defined by radius of a CBD of the major cities?

 

[justinbrett]

I wonder how it works though, given that these agreements were made well before WSI was even planned and built, so surely WSI automatically "falls outside" of those major cities' airports (SYD, MEL, BNE, PER) as it was never listed at the first place? Or is it defined by radius of a CBD of the major cities?

It’s because the agreements just use city names, not airport names (except for the ones that refer to Avalon).

Many of the agreements predate Avalon being used as a commercial airport.

 

[Harrison_133]

I'm 100% reading too much into this, but VA have added 'Kingsford Smith' to SYD when you search for Sydney on their home page.

Again, this means absolutely nothing and it's most likely just to distinguish between the two airports for when WSI eventually opens, but it is a recent change and given the conjecture in this thread about VA and WSI, thought it would be worth sharing.