Virgin to lose A330's and B777's - become mid range airline - really?

[oz_mark]

The two at WTB were due out for a spin today. Think one of them will be finding its way to QR as well.

 

[Saab34]

Will be interesting to see what QR does to the interior, I guess they might remove J and Y+ to install in house seats, and leave Y with perhaps a minor touch up considering seat back IFE is already installed.

 

[Harrison_133]

Will be interesting to see what QR does to the interior, I guess they might remove J and Y+ to install in house seats, and leave Y with perhaps a minor touch up considering seat back IFE is already installed.

They haven’t touched the cabins on the 4 Cathay 777s they have. I imagine the VA aircraft will be the same.

So, VPF and now VPE will be returning to Australian shores at some point under QR colours and rego.

Small point, but I highly doubt they’ll come to Australia operating a QR flight. Since entering service, the ex-Cathay 777s have been kept on shorter sectors out of Doha. Currently they’re scheduled to Male, Colombo, Kuwait City, Istanbul & Zurich. With an inconsistent cabin product to QR’s standard aircraft, like the Cathay 777s, I imagine the ex-VA aircraft will be kept close to Doha too.

 

[HS-TQE]

The two at WTB were due out for a spin today. Think one of them will be finding its way to QR as well.

I'd have to say 'why not both?" Even if a few had the smaller cargo doors.

As posted above, if the 2 77W at WTB end up joining VPF/VPE at QR via a leasing company, I'd assume they'd be primarily on 'regional' sectors ex-DOH if the above post is correct.

 

[Saab34]

9 across 777 too. What happens to the premium economy cabin? How do they charge for that?

 

[Harrison_133]

9 across 777 too. What happens to the premium economy cabin? How do they charge for that?

It’s sold as Comfort+ in Economy.

 

[HS-TQE]

9 across 777 too. What happens to the premium economy cabin? How do they charge for that?

Qatar has quite a number of 3x3x3 Y sub fleet 77Ws already flying around as well. Both legacy (293Y/42J) and the ex-CX 77Ws.

 

[Harrison_133]

the ex-CX 77Ws.

They’re 3-4-3 in Y.

 

[HS-TQE]

They’re 3-4-3 in Y.

I stand corrected on that one then.

It seems QR either took CX's '77P' seating layout, as that's one of CX 77W configs with regional J recliners (open to correction on that), or the 77K layout (with J flatbeds) and a small W cabin.

Unlikely QR would've taken the 77A config (which is a 3-class with F equipped).

 

[Harrison_133]

Unlikely QR would've taken the 77A config (which is a 3-class with F equipped).

The aircraft QR took from Cathay are in the 77A config (F6C53W34Y201).

 

[Harrison_133]

VPF

VH-VPF has now entered service with Qatar Airways as A7-BOF operating Doha to Manchester. Seat maps reflect the Virgin 777 cabin layout.

 

[HS-TQE]

I'd have to say 'why not both?" Even if a few had the smaller cargo doors.

As posted above, if the 2 77W at WTB end up joining VPF/VPE at QR via a leasing company, I'd assume they'd be primarily on 'regional' sectors ex-DOH if the above post is correct.

I'd be putting money on Castlelake Leasing acquiring the 2x VA 77Ws at WTB.

My guess is that all VA 77Ws with the exception of ex-VOZ, which is the now former Azur Air unit (Russian Charter operator) will eventually make their way to QR and allocated on the 7-8.5 hrs 'regional' services

 

[serfty]

My guess is that all VA 77Ws with the exception of ex-VOZ, which is the now former Azur Air unit (Russian Charter operator) will eventually make

If the kept the seating at least QR would have a consistent layout across the subfleet.

A bit like the Qantas registered VH-ZX ex BA 763's.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

The 737max has to come in very soon, if they want their flights to HND to start by Jul, they have the sims in PER, but they still have no 737max IRL to start real life training in them yet.

 

[TMP]

VH-VPF has now entered service with Qatar Airways as A7-BOF operating Doha to Manchester. Seat maps reflect the Virgin 777 cabin layout.

Partner's dad about to fly MAN-DOH on it... After the 6 hour delay due incoming delay

Edit: all original VA seating still onboard, including the "Economy X" branding on the seats

 

[Saab34]

The 737max has to come in very soon, if they want their flights to HND to start by Jul, they have the sims in PER, but they still have no 737max IRL to start real life training in them yet.

I am fairly sure they have a MAX sim already on the east coast, paid for before they went broke.

Shouldn’t take that long to enter service. Perhaps a week or two. Jetstar was about 3 weeks with the Neo here before they entered service, however that was because they did some mods here as Airbus had continued delays.

They should have a couple MAX aircraft by the time HND starts looking at some previous press releases.

 

[stm1sydney]

VA's B777s and A330s were lovely planes in which to fly, even in whY. One of the very best J class in the world. I tell you what, governments have a lot to answer for re their insane responses to a respiratory virus.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

But it wasn't just covid that usurped VA1's operations of their 777 and 330, it was that PS felt that there was no other way to get the airline out of financial strife.
If no covid, how long would VA1 be flying with its previous 5 owners not putting any more money into it?
They might have bought into it to write off tax losses, but in the end, who knows why they bought into VA1 in the first place.
If covid didn't happen, he would/might have kept operations, but then the airline due to lack of funds, might be run into the ground, with no new funds from its investors, and the revenue from flyers not really enough to make expenses, or to run a profit in the end.
If he had kept them, and bain had bought the whole airline, without covid, they (bain) might have also decided to stop flying the wide bodies, and send them back to their owners, if leased, or sold if owned.
As of now, the only way forward for VA2. if they are really serious, would be to lease any available 350/787 and fly them on the route that they said they would, ie, to HND, not from a town in QLD, but something from SYD/MEL, or even OOL, or a niche departure airport like ADL, grin.
I can only dream though.

 

[HS-TQE]

When your 'only known profitable' destination with the WBs was LAX, there would be a problem financially. Sure they could've terminated the A330s right there, though there would be questions whether keeping a owned (mortgaged) subfleet of 777s for LAX, on the assumption they've kept the DL JV partnership in that scenario may be a worthwhile use of CapEx (as JVs are typically a 50/50 CapEx and Profit sharing scenario), plus DL's hesitance to expand out of SYD at the time.

 

[Saab34]

Virgin was heading for administration Covid or not. Things must have been bad early 2020 as they dropped the axe on the Tiger Airbus fleet overnight in February, sacked all those crew, as well as reducing the network by 40%. Certainly did appear they wanted out from that brand.

I don’t know how PS could have wriggled his way out of near $10b in debt. He had the same idea as Bain, they needed to clear the deck, however PS had no cash left, that plan was about 5 years too late. I thought I read he was talking to Deloitte in late 2019 about options citing concerns continuing operations in the medium term.

The Velocity buyback made cash matters worse, however I guess they own it fully now. The Chair should really be investigated for why she didn’t put it into Administration in prior years, selling off Velocity certainly raised alarm bells. Executives trying to save face no doubt.