Virgin Passenger : cabin staff ratio ?

[DavidAmory]

Hello everyone, First time poster long time point collector.

Could someone please explain cabin staff to passenger ratio.

Passenger on Dj 194 Nadi-Melb 22/06/12

I had serious concerns that may compromise safety.

Regards

David

 

[oz_mark]

AFAIK, Virgin Australia run the 737-800 aircraft with a staff ratio of 1 attendant per 50 passengers.

 

[straitman]

AFAIK, Virgin Australia run the 737-800 aircraft with a staff ratio of 1 attendant per 50 passengers.

The minimum ratio is dictated by the operating authority.

What is your concern:?:

 

[oz_mark]

The minimum ratio is dictated by the operating authority.

There is regulation, or maybe legislation, which says 1 for 36, but I understand Virgin has a a CASA approved exemption to allow 1:50 (on the 737-800).

 

[markis10]

There is regulation, or maybe legislation, which says 1 for 36, but I understand Virgin has a a CASA approved exemption to allow 1:50 (on the 737-800).

1 for 50 is commonly the accepted world standard so the exemption is no biggie.

 

[DavidAmory]

The minimum ratio is dictated by the operating authority.

What is your concern:?:

Fifteen minutes out of Nadi,(full plane) I noticed 1 attendant stretched out under a blanket attempting to sleep.
When I quizzed the cabin manager as to how many cabin crew on board, he replied there were 4 attendants and 2 pilots on board. I then wryly remarked that I could only see 3 cabin crew, at which point he woke the staff member up and she returned to work.
Two hours into the flight, to my surprise 2 of the cabin crew were under blankets attempting to sleep, leaving only two to service the passengers.
My concern is that if an emergency was to happen, safety would surely be compromised, if so called trained personnel are called upon to act immediately, I would rather they do it fully awake and aware of the situation.
I have flown this route over 40 times with Air Pacific and have never seen this practice.
Seeing it is only a five hour flight, I expect the cabin staff to remain awake and attentive.

Perhaps Air Pacific put more emphasis on safety than Virgin....... This will certainly influence my future future short haul flights.

 

[markis10]

Fifteen minutes out of Nadi,(full plane) I noticed 1 attendant stretched out under a blanket attempting to sleep.
When I quizzed the cabin manager as to how many cabin crew on board, he replied there were 4 attendants and 2 pilots on board. I then wryly remarked that I could only see 3 cabin crew, at which point he woke the staff member up and she returned to work.
Two hours into the flight, to my surprise 2 of the cabin crew were under blankets attempting to sleep, leaving only two to service the passengers.
My concern is that if an emergency was to happen, safety would surely be compromised, if so called trained personnel are called upon to act immediately, I would rather they do it fully awake and aware of the situation.
I have flown this route over 40 times with Air Pacific and have never seen this practice.
Seeing it is only a five hour flight, I expect the cabin staff to remain awake and attentive.

Perhaps Air Pacific put more emphasis on safety than Virgin....... This will certainly influence my future future short haul flights.

Its a common practice and by no means a safety concern, you have not noticed crew resting on other flights because they are often above you. A rested crew member is more likely to be functional in an emergency than a fatigued one, and let's face it, at 38000 ft the cabin crew cannot do much anyway except use the PA, which only takes one member. different story on the ground, but it will take at least twenty minutes to get there which is plenty of time to wake up, if it's quicker than that you will more than likely find there is nothing the crew could do anyway.

 

[oz_mark]

1 for 50 is commonly the accepted world standard so the exemption is no biggie.

I didn't say it was an issue. Was just explaing what it was.

 

[Mwenenzi]

There is regulation, or maybe legislation, which says 1 for 36, but I understand Virgin has a a CASA approved exemption to allow 1:50 (on the 737-800).

1 for 50 is commonly the accepted world standard so the exemption is no biggie.

IIRC the pacific island flights were/(are?) operated by DJ New Zealand.
1:50 is common in the world. 1:36 ratio is Australia driven more by the union influence. Just another reason why air travel is more expensive in Aust

CASA proposes fewer cabin crew on Australian flights | Plane Talking
Cabin attendants - How many are required in Australian aircraft?
CASA told to keep cabin crew ratios
House of Representatives Committees &; Parliament of Australia
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/164925293?selectedversion=NBD49016253

 

[markis10]

I didn't say it was an issue. Was just explaing what it was.

Just pointing out we are different

 

[ftm]

The ratio of 1:50 is only for take off and landing. If there were 4 cabin crew for those phases of flight, then the requirement is satisfied.

Having a snooze in flight is not unusual or unsafe, indeed it may improve safety by increasing that crew member's level of alertness for landing.

Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using AustFreqFly

 

[mannej]

It may only be a 5 hour flight, but remember the crew have a much larger period on which they can be on duty. Thus meaning your crew may not have been fresh.

There has been a fair bit in the press regarding the fatigue management placed on crews (I can think of a particular QF Group airline that rhymes with DeathStar), so in your case it may be a tad more complex than first flight should be awake for the whole time.

If you are concerned about it, there are avenues for you to voice your concern more formally than here on AFF

 

[dk4]

Looking at the four major domestic operators (B737/A320 services): on my count, only one of them regularly staffs their cabins with more than 4 attendants. That would be the expensive one.

 

[oz_mark]

IIRC the pacific island flights were/(are?) operated by DJ New Zealand.
1:50 is common in the world. 1:36 ratio is Australia driven more by the union influence. Just another reason why air travel is more expensive in Aust

If you look at the House of Reps link, you'll see that the history of the 1:36 ratio is unclear, and seems to have come from passenger numbers on the DC3 or F27.

The cost calculations look like the cost difference, on a per passenger bases, are pretty small

This view was supported by some modelling provided by the FAAA, who calculated that with an average passenger load of 80 per cent, the cost per passenger would be between $0.80 and $1.56 for an additional member of cabin crew

 

[TheInsider]

Generally these crew, along with the JQ SYD-NAN crew are from NZ, they have just operated a flight from NZ to Australia and have 3 more flights to complete. NZ-SYD-NAN-SYD-NZ

 

[MomoWang]

The 1:36 passenger ratio has been around since before I was born and it is unique to Australia. The 1:50 passenger seats ratio is common in the rest of the world, except Canada which is 1:40. Note this regulation does not apply for aircraft with more than 215 seats - where the minimum number of cabin crew on board is one for every floor level cabin door.

Since about 2006 most airlines put safety cases to CASA to operate to 1:50 instead of 1:36 and these were granted. This is why you see 737-800 and A320 aircraft with a minimum of 4 crew instead of 5. That being said, some airlines have crew ratios written into their EBAs and/or choose to put more crew onboard for service requirements. Virgin introduced a 5th crew member on some flights earlier in the year, I don't think Qantas went to 4 even though they have the exemption.

In reference to crew resting during the flight, this is common practice for both pilots and cabin crew. Australia is one of the most advanced countries in the world in aviation fatigue risk management. This is in terms of both research and also airline systems.

Some aircraft are fitting with bunks in the ceiling, some have cabin seats that are curtained off where others are just normal cabin seats. Thus in some cases you will see the crew resting, other times you will not.