Virgin Business Class Lottery - Pay for Business, get Premium Economy! Now 0 for 2.

[lovestotravel]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

You do understand that you need to become Platinum then earn 1500SC to get partner gold. As your year to date SC will reset when you qualify the first time for Platinum.

Yep I do - Thanks

Air NZ J to the USA return is 440SC's :mrgreen:

 

[medhead]

Gee, talk about semantics. Virgin are selling product that they are not delivering? Are they? Jetstar call their premium seats Business, why not Virgin? The only difference is the seat and all Virgin promise is extra space and comfort. You get extra space in a premium seat, which provides comfort. I can see nothing else in the business fare guide that isn't offered on both types of aircraft.

• flight change/cancellations
• IFE if offered
• food and bev
• checked baggage
• advance seat selection
• priority check in and boarding
• lounge entry

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[TonyHancock]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

GJetstar call their premium seats Business,

...and QF call those dreadful seats on the newer A330's (th ones with the middle seat in J blocked off now) business too. They are awful.

 

[mannej]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Gee, talk about semantics. Virgin are selling product that they are not delivering? Are they? Jetstar call their premium seats Business, why not Virgin?

That is not relevant though. If you are on a JQ 330, you will always be in a "Business" Seat. How often do JQ sub a 330 for a 320/321?
That is a bit different to what Virgin's issues are, as the consumer is well aware before hand what the JQ product is like.

Like I have said, they had issues with the introduction of PE into their fleet, you would have thought they have their contingencies sorted this time around (That does not necessarily mean swapping like for like, but more in terms of communication etc).

 

[MadFairlane]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Just fly in whY... Problem solved...

 

[medhead]

That is not relevant though. If you are on a JQ 330, you will always be in a "Business" Seat. How often do JQ sub a 330 for a 320/321?
That is a bit different to what Virgin's issues are, as the consumer is well aware before hand what the JQ product is like.

Like I have said, they had issues with the introduction of PE into their fleet, you would have thought they have their contingencies sorted this time around (That does not necessarily mean swapping like for like, but more in terms of communication etc).

It actually is relevant because this all comes down to definition and semantics. The only difference between the aircraft types is the seat, everything else offers the same business service and product. Even the premium is better than economy. That is what is offered as business by VA, there may be a relative difference between the seats but a business product is still received and it is better than economy.

So it is no different to comparing business on JQ and business on QF, SQ, CX and complaining that JQ isn't business. But either product is better than economy. All that is being discussed is a name and that is relevant.


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[lovestotravel]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

It actually is relevant because this all comes down to definition and semantics.

There may be a relative difference between the seats but a business product is still received and it is better than economy.

It's either different or it's not

FACT is that VA are selling business seats that are only PE and they know customers will end up on them

 

[medhead]

It's either different or it's not

FACT is that VA are selling business seats that are only PE and they know customers will end up on them

Sorry, fact is it is all (now) called business! And that business is vastly more than just the seat.


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[mannej]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

It actually is relevant because this all comes down to definition and semantics. The only difference between the aircraft types is the seat, everything else offers the same business service and product. Even the premium is better than economy. That is what is offered as business by VA, there may be a relative difference between the seats but a business product is still received and it is better than economy.

So it is no different to comparing business on JQ and business on QF, SQ, CX and complaining that JQ isn't business. But either product is better than economy. All that is being discussed is a name and that is relevant.


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How is it relevant to the OP or the thread?

If you pay for Business on JQ you will receive their business product.

With DJ, you can end up in an Economy seat. Yes it may have the middle seat blocked, but it is still an economy seat. People pay for the seat as much as they pay for the service. In that regards JQ does not fail to deliver. How it compares (or people who whinge about it) to the likes of QF/EK etc is not in the least bit relevant to this.

 

[markis10]

While I think DJ could have done better, and they have had history with rogues before, it's not like they are a standout when it comes to selling something they cannot deliver. Aircraft substitutions aside (I have had a 734 take the place of a 763 while I was booked in J, and have had 30% of my flights swapped from 738 to 734 ( often TSV bound), QF still regularly sell a J product they cannot deliver, and I am not talking different seats, I am talking no J on the aircraft, there is clearly room for improvement on both sides.

 

[MichaelD]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

So it is no different to comparing business on JQ and business on QF, SQ, CX and complaining that JQ isn't business. But either product is better than economy. All that is being discussed is a name and that is relevant.

If I fly JQ business, I *will* get a comfy soft leather seat which on ALL their aircraft is better than the very best economy seat they have.

If I fly QF business, I *will* get a wide, comfy seat which on ALL their aircraft is better than the very best economy seat they have.

If I fly DJ business, I *might* get a wide, comfy seat which is better than their economy seat, or I might get an economy seat coloured red.


In my opinion, 90% of the Business experience is the seat. The 10% icing is the service and the food.

 

[medhead]

How is it relevant to the OP or the thread?

If you pay for Business on JQ you will receive their business product.

With DJ, you can end up in an Economy seat. Yes it may have the middle seat blocked, but it is still an economy seat. People pay for the seat as much as they pay for the service. In that regards JQ does not fail to deliver. How it compares (or people who whinge about it) to the likes of QF/EK etc is not in the least bit relevant to this.

The business product offers a seat with more room and comfort as well as everything else. Both seats meet that offer. Simple. It is relevant because you are only arguing about what *your* definition of business happens to be, while ignoring what the product happens to be and only focussing on a minor part of that product.


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[mannej]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

The business product offers a seat with more room and comfort as well as everything else. Both seats meet that offer. Simple.


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No they don't.

 

[MichaelD]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Both seats meet that offer. Simple.

I'll be happy to swap your 737-800 J flights for my 737-700 J flights if you like.

 

[medhead]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

If I fly JQ business, I *will* get a comfy soft leather seat which on ALL their aircraft is better than the very best economy seat they have.

If I fly QF business, I *will* get a wide, comfy seat which on ALL their aircraft is better than the very best economy seat they have.

If I fly DJ business, I *might* get a wide, comfy seat which is better than their economy seat, or I might get an economy seat coloured red.


In my opinion, 90% of the Business experience is the seat. The 10% icing is the service and the food.

If you fly VA you will get a seat with [-]more room[/-] extra space and comfort

No they don't.

That contradicts you're previous statement. A blocked middle seat is [-]more room[/-] extra space. Go look at the website it does not offer a particular type of seat it offers [-]more room[/-] extra space and comfort. VA does not fail to deliver, they provide what they have listed on the website.

This all comes down to your perception; you perceive the seat to define business, while ignoring what is listed as the product. This is exactly the same as someone who claims JQ does not provide business class.

With DJ, you can end up in an Economy seat. Yes it may have the middle seat blocked, but it is still an economy seat. People pay for the seat as much as they pay for the service. In that regards JQ does not fail to deliver. How it compares (or people who whinge about it) to the likes of QF/EK etc is not in the least bit relevant to this.

 

[markis10]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

If I fly QF business, I *will* get a wide, comfy seat which on ALL their aircraft is better than the very best economy seat they have.
.

No you wont, these two options both fail to offer a nice wide comfy seat for the entire journey, and the shorter J experience is more likely to be subbed for a PE style 734 yet costs more!



For comparison purposes on the same day I can fly J cheaper and the whole way, even if I get a 737-700



Like I said, both airlines could do with improvements!

 

[MichaelD]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

If you fly VA you will get a seat with [-]more room[/-] extra space and comfort.

I have flown JQ Business, QF Business, DJ (proper) Business and DJ (Premium Economy) Business.


The DJ "PE" Business seat was most assuredly neither more roomy nor more comfortable than any of the other J products. In fact, Row 1 PE is downright cramped compared with Row 3 or 4 Y and a very unpleasant seat to fly in.

 

[mannej]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

What do the arm rests do on these PE seats? Are they locked into position?
If so there is no contradiction at all, it is still an economy seat.

 

[MichaelD]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

No you wont, these two options both fail to offer a nice wide comfy seat for the entire journey, and the shorter J experience is more likely to be subbed for a PE style 734 yet costs more!

Got to love selective quoting!

Look at the VERY NEXT screen you get when booking the above flight:

"The requested cabin class is full or not available in at least one of the options listed below. (5003 UI)"
"Note: Your flight from Townsville to Cairns will be in Economy"
"Note: Your flight from Cairns to Darwin will be in Economy"

I am informed that I will not get a J experience all the way and can make an informed decision to change flights, change airlines or book multi-city multi-class for a cheaper result.

The key word here is *informed*.

 

[markis10]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Got to love selective quoting!

Note though the fare charged is the same as a direct J flight, with no offer of a reduced fare or refund , Got to love those J fares in Y seats with QF LOL. I think the key word here is rip off, a long standing one , your still paying a Business fare but not getting business benefits which is your beef is it not?

If I fly QF business, I *will* get a wide, comfy seat which on ALL their aircraft is better than the very best economy seat they have.

If I pay QF a business fare, I will at least know that for most of the journey I will have a Y seat with no IFE yet be charged the same price with no recourse for compensation because I have been informed!