Virgin Blue to vie for business passengers: Report

[oz_mark]

Re: SMH article on DJ's push for more business

I'm a bit slow getting back to this, but the official data that you've quoted shows that the fares in June 2001 and June 2010 are either basically the same or have decreased. I have no idea how it indicates a substantial increase.

In real terms (i.e. CPI adjusted). Prior to the GFC they do seem to be increasing > CPI, but the GFC seems to have pulled it back into line.

 

[medhead]

Re: SMH article on DJ's push for more business

In real terms (i.e. CPI adjusted). Prior to the GFC they do seem to be increasing > CPI, but the GFC seems to have pulled it back into line.

Looking at the spreadsheet and the graph that was posted it has fluctuated up and down over the 9 or so years. But between that point in time and the current-ish point in time it has not risen and it certainly hasn't substantially increased. But it has risen (and fallen) in between then and now.

 

[Mal]

Re: SMH article on DJ's push for more business

I'm a bit slow getting back to this, but the official data that you've quoted shows that the fares in June 2001 and June 2010 are either basically the same or have decreased. I have no idea how it indicates a substantial increase.

Good point. However, the graph and data is a set of *combined* data from a large number of routes. Some routes will have gone up substantially, some will have reduced (eg D class fares on the East Coast).

The bit I really have a problem with is "business class fares have not risen since that time.". This is a plain mis-truth as the fares have gone up substantially. Just because you can massage the figures by using CPI increases, doesn't hide the fact that the fares have gone up substantially in the timeframe.

 

[medhead]

Re: SMH article on DJ's push for more business

Good point. However, the graph and data is a set of *combined* data from a large number of routes. Some routes will have gone up substantially, some will have reduced (eg D class fares on the East Coast).

The bit I really have a problem with is "business class fares have not risen since that time.". This is a plain mis-truth as the fares have gone up substantially. Just because you can massage the figures by using CPI increases, doesn't hide the fact that the fares have gone up substantially in the timeframe.

I also have an issue with that statement. But the point you make is an issue with the ABS not the journalist. They are also the figures that you quoted to prove that there has been a substantial increase. Whereas the figures do not show that there is a substantial difference between then and now. They do show a substantial increase during some intervening years but then they also show a substantial decrease between others.

Also now that you mention the massaging of the figures, I'm even less certain as to why they were quoted to support either view. If they to be condemned as statistical massaging it is hardly valid to quote them as proof of an increase.

You might feel that the fares have substantially increased but the points is that the figures show that on a whole business airfares are the same as they used to be, based on one measure. I guess there is one final point, the figures show the picture in Australia not just on the east coast. Just concentrating on a few select routes doesn't tell what the situation is like in the rest of the country.

 

[dajop]

Re: SMH article on DJ's push for more business

Just because you can massage the figures by using CPI increases, doesn't hide the fact that the fares have gone up substantially in the timeframe.

How using CPI increases "massaging the figures"? In economics it is fairly standard practice. It is more representative than not using CPI increases. So using that line of argument, one could argue that an airfare purchased in 1975 for $100 may cost $120 today, so that is irrefutable proof that airfares have gone up in the same timeframe? So bad on the airlines for increase fares! Sure they have gone up in dollar price, but in real times (ie affordability)? No they have decreased substantially - because it a lot more people earn $120 for a days work in 2010, than earnt $100 for a days work in 1975. Not too mention cost relative to staples, land, cars etc.

Just remember the old axiom there are lies, damned lies and statistics .....

 

[medhead]

I just thought of one thing they could tweak to vie for my "business" related flying. That's the timetable. It is only one route, but from SYD to ADL on a weeknight, I'm trapped flying with qantas at 2045, because the next earlier flights 1825 with QF and 1800 with DJ are just too early for me to be able to do a full days work and get to the airport in time. Sure the route isn't a standard golden triangle route and there have to be fewer flights. But putting more that flight back to 1700 or 1725 would almost guarantee me to fly DJ.

hope this is the right thread for this, there have been a few of these virgin threads recently and I'm a bit confused.