Virgin and Jetstar cancel Bali flights due to Volcanic eruptions

[under the radar]

Because the airport is open, it is safe to fly and the flights they are sending empty are their normal scheduled flights. They are refusing to send pax from Au to Bali when it is safe to do so. And to top it all they are refusing refunds. Credits only.

And if I go to their website, I can still buy a seat on the flights they have confirmed as cancelled today...Way to go VA...

it's good to hear you are willing to play Russian roulette with YOUR life, but some airlines choose not to, because they are responsible for many more lives... (and yes, some airlines do choose to play Russian roulette with peoples lives)... I bet your family/loved ones will be the first in line seeking 'compensation' when your plane goes down and you are killed, because the airline chose to fly!!

 

[Turbo-g]

Of an interesting note, having flown on CX171 HKG-PER many times , please have a look at the flight paths taken. We usually cross over Bali but there have been some quite significant diversions in place. Not all Asia based carriers will punch through it.

Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker!

 

[mannej]

Because the airport is open, it is safe to fly and the flights they are sending empty are their normal scheduled flights. They are refusing to send pax from Au to Bali when it is safe to do so. And to top it all they are refusing refunds. Credits only.

That is the current argument over the flight path of MH17, and the liability that MH holds due to choosing that particular flight path.

Just because the airport is open and others are choosing to fly to DPS doesn't make it "safe".

 

[dajop]

Correct. But their safety standards are lower. Simple.

Looking at flightaware there have been some turnbacks of GA flights as well (one MEL-DPS flight seemed to get most of the way across Australia before turning back and trying again next day, not sure how accurate that is).

It seems though they are more willing to take the commercial risk of not being able to operate into/out of DPS, and in reality have more options available to them operationally (in terms of crew, diversions, ability to restart when airport/flight paths re-open) than JQ and VA do a long way from home. Likewise carriers coming to/from SIN, which is only 2 hrs or so away have that operational flexibility that perhaps VA and JQ don't.

 

[ChrisDPom]

Considering the ballsup Jetstar made a month ago when I flew to Bali for 2 weeks with JQ106 PER-DPS (26 hour delay with a broken plane that then flowed into cancelling 2 flights and delaying at least 4 others), I can sympathise with Heg's comments.

They have limited capacity for recovery (no replacement was available for 24hrs so they tried fixing and allocated the broken plane to some of the next day's flights without success).

Imagine the effect of that limited capacity on the Bali flights with the uncertainty on flying.

Any Bali problems would flow onto other Jetstar flights as they struggle to cope.

Whether other airlines are safer or not is less of an issue than the capacity cost/risk for Aus based airlines far from home. My opinion but I am a cynic.

Chris

 

[theblank]

Volcanic ash forecasts are publicly available. Bali is covered by the Darwin VAAC.
Volcanic Ash Graphics 8

not really understanding all this, but does this mean its getting worse or better?
I have spoken to my garuda pilot friend today, he flies JKT/DPS most days and he has no inside info, he just goes to work if the bosses dont tell him to stay home

 

[Himeno]

not really understanding all this, but does this mean its getting worse or better?
I have spoken to my garuda pilot friend today, he flies JKT/DPS most days and he has no inside info, he just goes to work if the bosses dont tell him to stay home

The graphic version is easier to understand then the other text version...

They issue a 6 hourly ash forecast for the next 24 hours every 6 hours. The current forecast has ash between the surface and 14000 feet moving west across the north east of Bali towards the Java sea.

 

[Captain hum]

I have no idea how to do the multi quote thing, but to respond to all of you who think I don't care about my own safety - (and BTW I have flown Garuda several times and found them to be a most acceptable airline) -

-Virgin ARE flying to Bali -this is why I am angry They are sending empty planes up there every day, but are refusing to send pax. This is not about safety anymore. It is about them not wanting to risk having more pax up in Bali IN CASE they too become stranded in the future . That's why I am annoyed.
Also -
I rang them yesterday to see what my 'credit' would be if we cancelled our outbound but retained our inbound. On a total return fare of $1325 they offered me a credit of $180. Their excuse?
" because Mrs Heg, the fares have gone up since you booked and also a one way is more expensive than a return " Way to go VA....

 

[Captain hum]

it's good to hear you are willing to play Russian roulette with YOUR life, but some airlines choose not to, because they are responsible for many more lives... (and yes, some airlines do choose to play Russian roulette with peoples lives)... I bet your family/loved ones will be the first in line seeking 'compensation' when your plane goes down and you are killed, because the airline chose to fly!!

With respect -that is utter tosh. Read my post. Virgin ARE Flying to bali -thus it is safe to fly . Even their updates state this. They are just choosing not to send passengers.

 

[Melburnian1]

Heg, you and others ought to be able to receive a full refund if you choose.

The airlines get away with a lot in this circumstance, far more than the likes of Myer, David Jones, Harvey Norman and so on ever could in their similar situations.

It would really grate with me if I was in your situation that the airline (VA) is earning interest on your fare while refusing to convey you.

If you are a member of Facebook (not everyone wants to be!), perhaps you might publicly complain. Alternatively, ring a travel journalist in your state.

The ACCC is another route that you could consider. VA (and JQ) are saving a lot of money by not flying, but not providing you with what you want (a trip to DPS.) To suggest that you can instead book with VA to HWT is hardly equitable given that this may see you incurring further unexpected costs, and if you have family already in Bali - what's the point of you going to Thailand or elsewhere?

This uncertainty must sure be making other competing destinations - coughet (Thailand), Boracay/ Alona Beach, Panglao/ Cebu (Philippines), Fiji, Da Nang (Vietnam) and so on look increasingly attractive, although one constraint is that many will have booked their Christmas and January holidays long ago and cannot 'back out' of a Bali trip without losing a lot of money, given that a substantial percentage of travellers do not take out travel insurance.

One has to feel extremely sorry for children whose parents may have let it slip that there's an overseas holiday awaiting them after a good year at school. And what about the Year 12s who want to celebrate with their friends in a few days after HSC/ VCE or equivalent examinations are finished, many of whom may have booked as groups? It's worth a prayer to St Jude.

 

[mannej]

With respect -that is utter tosh. Read my post. Virgin ARE Flying to bali -thus it is safe to fly . Even their updates state this. They are just choosing not to send passengers.

Out of curiosity do you have any qualifications to back up that statement with?

 

[Captain hum]

Heg, you and others ought to be able to receive a full refund if you choose.

The airlines get away with a lot in this circumstance, far more than the likes of Myer, David Jones, Harvey Norman and so on ever could in their similar situations.

It would really grate with me if I was in your situation that the airline (VA) is earning interest on your fare while refusing to convey you.

If you are a member of Facebook (not everyone wants to be!), perhaps you might publicly complain. Alternatively, ring a travel journalist in your state.

The ACCC is another route that you could consider. VA (and JQ) are saving a lot of money by not flying, but not providing you with what you want (a trip to DPS.) To suggest that you can instead book with VA to HWT is hardly equitable given that this may see you incurring further unexpected costs, and if you have family already in Bali - what's the point of you going to Thailand or elsewhere?

.

Yes the lack of refund situation is disgusting. I have complained on their FB page ( as have thousands of others) and on the phone to their customer service too, but will be taking it further. We are insured, so will get our money back on the dive trip we had scheduled (minus the excess) but this credit note situation with VA is just wrong.

 

[Captain hum]

Out of curiosity do you have any qualifications to back up that statement with?

Yes- the Virgin Australia webpage.

 

[Melburnian1]

On the VA Facebook page, more than one passenger - one of whom correctly said it was insulting for VA to call them 'guests' - complained that they received an SMS stating that a flight was cancelled. VA's Facebook administrator then said that the SMS was incorrectly sent and that the flight was operating.

These cancellations and the decision making process as to whether flights operate and convey passengers both ways or only one way must be stressful for VA staff, but the mistake and the refusal to carry northbound passengers would be doing some harm to VA's corporate reputation.

Strangely, I saw one comment where a passenger claimed to have been granted a full refund by VA but that may be an isolated case.

 

[meloz]

Did you say Garuda?

View attachment 59206

This photo was taken over 1 year ago on the Island of Java and has nothing to do with the current situation.

 

[mannej]

This photo was taken over 1 year ago on the Island of Java.

I am fully aware of that

 

[gaz0303]

This photo was taken over 1 year ago on the Island of Java and has nothing to do with the current situation.

Surely the point of the photo in the context of the conversation was to indicate that the safety record of Indonesian carriers does not match that of Australian carriers. Last week yet another Indonesian plane (Batik Air, subsidiary of Lion, in Surabaya I think) ran past the runway and ended up on its belly.

 

[meloz]

Surely the point of the photo in the context of the conversation was to indicate that the safety record of Indonesian carriers does not match that of Australian carriers. Last week yet another Indonesian plane (Batik Air, subsidiary of Lion, in Surabaya I think) ran past the runway and ended up on its belly.

The aircraft was covered in ash whilst on the ground. I'm sure other carriers had their aircraft covered in ash at the same time. Not sure how the photo makes Oz carriers safer than Indo.

 

[mannej]

The aircraft was covered in ash whilst on the ground. I'm sure other carriers had their aircraft covered in ash at the same time. Not sure how the photo makes Oz carriers safer than Indo.

Or maybe it is a graphic reminder that ash isn't an imaginary issue - whilst the aircraft is on the ground covered here, we all know what ash can do once an aircraft is in the air.

 

[Melburnian1]

JQ is also receiving many complaints on its Facebook page from DPS-bound or DPS-originating passengers, but of the sample that I have read (not exhaustive), none discuss refunds or the lack thereof - they are almost exclusively complaints about being stranded in Bali or being unable to get there.

While no one would suggest that aircraft carry an unlimited supply of fuel for diversions, the question remains as to why the Australian airlines cannot travel out of the area in which the ash is present or drifting towards and then approach DPS from another direction as numerous other airlines seem to be doing.

Extremely reputable airlines such as SQ try not to place the safety of their tech and cabin crew and passengers at risk, so notwithstanding that deviations can be lengthy in kilometres, why aren't JQ and VA doing this?

Am I being too cynical to suggest that it all comes down to cost and that 'safety' is a convenient excuse, much like the rogue building unions in Victoria (and, mannej, in the West) use 'safety' as an excuse to cover many illegal behaviours?

Even if my views are completely wrong, that matters little in the sense that this failure to provide regular public transport to Bali when other international airlines with many years of flying experience are doing so is hurting the reputation of JQ and VA amongst their number one market - Australians.

Perhaps Australians forget these occurrences too quickly, but at least in the short term there will be a lot of discussions around bars, barbeques and dinner tables about how inadequate and unacceptable the Australian airlines have been in this case.

Two out of three international passengers departing Australia (about 60 per cent of whom are Australian passport holders) already patronise non Australian domiciled airlines.

The takeout message is surely that GA will get you there; XT might (but has an extremely small fleet) but you cannot rely on JQ or VA on the Oz-Bali routes when there are such climatic events.

By the way, if I am not mistaken, the European Commission among others assessed GA as passing an audit in very recent years, something that is not true of some other Indonesian carriers. So we cannot lump all the airlines from the Indonesian archipelago into one supposedly 'unsafe' basket.