Virgin and Jetstar cancel Bali flights due to Volcanic eruptions

[Melburnian1]

XT801, the scheduled 1110 from MEL to DPS on Sunday 8 November departed at 0724 on Monday 9 November after earlier having been rescheduled a couple of times to times such as around 0300 and 0430 on the Monday.

Monday's XT803 (which coincidentally has the same departure time of 1110) is cancelled. GA719 from MEL to DPS is delayed from 0950 this morning to 2200 hours tonight, while VA49, the 0915 to DPS is cancelled ex MEL. JQ43 is delayed from 0955 to 1200 in its departure.

So there remains no clear pattern.

'Hit and miss' is the best description one could give, at least ex MEL for Bali flights.

 

[Captain hum]

VA now saying that they will fly empty planes up to DPS once it is clear, but won't take pax in case they too get stranded. Really? Let's guess who's benefit this is for eh? :evil:

"As Mt Rinjani continues to erupt and flying conditions remain unpredictable in the days to come, our priority is to bring guests home from Bali, rather than fly more guests in who could potentially be delayed in returning home due to ongoing eruptions. Therefore Virgin Australia remains ready to send aircraft over to Bali as soon as we receive advice that conditions in the vicinity of Denpasar airport will be safe for flying."

'

 

[Melburnian1]

Heg, yes, a strange way for VA to operate, because once passengers are there they can rebook on other airlines if need be to get to from DPS to SIN, KUL or MNL and then book a low cost airline or other flight from the latter three to get them back to Oz.

If one looks at the right hand top of this Facebook page it is apparent that someone at VA (perhaps confused as to why Brisbane still lacks daylight saving time) got confused between 'am' and 'pm' and meant that an update would be provided on Tuesday 10 November at 1130 AEDT, not 2330 as VA states:

https://www.facebook.com/virginaustralia/

If only they'd always use 24 hour clock there would never be any confusion (although admittedly 0001 and 2359 are generally used not '0000' as the latter stumps many.)

GA looks to be operating although its 0950 hours 9 November 2015 MEL to DPS flight has been altered to a 2100 hours departure, an 11 hour delay. GA718D pulled in at 2007 instead of 0730 so 2130 might be a more realistic forecast for the departure back to Indonesia.

 

[Melburnian1]

More not so good news:

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

It is probably logistically too difficult to do this as a return crew would not be in position (assuming that the same crew could not work there and back) and catering might be unavailable, but surely if possible it would have been preferable to land the JQ aircraft at an open airfield in central or even eastern Indonesia (on Java) with passengers then able to make their way to Bali by surface transport (train or bus then ferry, then bus.) Of course this would not succeed in bringing passengers back to Australia who have holidayed on Bali and the latter may be the main aim of the exercise.

 

[Captain hum]

More not so good news:

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

It is probably logistically too difficult to do this as a return crew would not be in position (assuming that the same crew could not work there and back) and catering might be unavailable, but surely if possible it would have been preferable to land the JQ aircraft at an open airfield in central or even eastern Indonesia (on Java) with passengers then able to make their way to Bali by surface transport (train or bus then ferry, then bus.) Of course this would not succeed in bringing passengers back to Australia who have holidayed on Bali and the latter may be the main aim of the exercise.

The aircraft were empty as far as I am aware. Certainly VA are not putting pax on any flight to Bali. They have said at best that they will fly empty aircraft up there simply to get folks out.

 

[Pushka]

Its interesting that all other airlines are flying to Bali.

 

[Captain hum]

Its interesting that all other airlines are flying to Bali.

Yes it is isn't it...VA doing a great job of annoying their customers. Again.

 

[Pushka]

Yes it is isn't it...VA doing a great job of annoying their customers. Again.

Almost like VA and JQ are in cohoots.

 

[Melburnian1]

Sadly, Pushka, political correctness has permeated so much of Australia.

This translates into businesses being unwilling to take what many in Asia would regard as 'normal' behaviour.

So GA flies to DPS; VA and JQ do not. Look at how incredibly politically correct a senior official at QF is!

I am simplifying things a little, because Australian airlines, as someone else pointed out, may for whatever reason have to divert back to DRW if there is a problem in DPS with the ash cloud. Just why they could not divert to an open airport on the island of Java is not explained.

However one cannot fail to observe that the spirit of a can do attitude that saw the Snowy Mountain Scheme completed and so on is more or less dead, or at best in great danger in Australia.

The message for anyone who wants to enjoy a holiday is don't fly with an Australian headquartered airline - patronise the Asian ones instead, because thankfully they don't suffer from the Australian political correctness syndrome.

The other message coming loud and clear from the purveyors of political correctness in Australia is don't ever take any personal risks.

The best place to stay is clearly in your bedroom. (But I forgot - bed bugs lurk and so does the odd larger arachnid. Clearly a dangerous place.)

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I've seen the phantom menace of "political correctness" blamed for many things but this is ridiculous.
I'd look at for commercial explanations such as the aircraft GA flies compared to JQ and VA before I jumped to such conclusions.

 

[Pushka]

I've seen the phantom menace of "political correctness" blamed for many things but this is ridiculous.
I'd look at for commercial explanations such as the aircraft GA flies compared to JQ and VA before I jumped to such conclusions.

But every airline but Australia is flying there. SQ. CX. KLM. Air France. Qatar. Etihad...

 

[TomVexille]

I am simplifying things a little, because Australian airlines, as someone else pointed out, may for whatever reason have to divert back to DRW if there is a problem in DPS with the ash cloud. Just why they could not divert to an open airport on the island of Java is not explained.

Because if they land at some random airport on Java, they will have stranded a planeload of pax in some random city. The crew will be out of hours and unable to continue. They will have no commercial arrangements for hotels, no ground handling, then there's immigration to consider. I hate to imagine the fuss people would kick up if VA or JQ stranded pax on Java for a few days.

 

[Melburnian1]

Would the crew be 'out of hours?' The permissible numbers vary but in some circumstances the tech crew can work up to 18 (and 20 hours by extension) if I recall. If allowable, that might cover a return Australian east coast - Indonesia trip in such circumstances, obviating the need for a fresh crew to board in Java (who admittedly would be unlikely to be 'in position.')

Many might appreciate being on Java because at least they then have a good chance of getting to Bali by either air, or rail or bus plus ferry and then bus or pickup by a private Balinese driver.

Or are you suggesting most Bali-bound travellers are not intelligent enough to work these things out for themselves and privately organise tickets to get themselves to their intended destination? Surface travel in southeast and north Asia may be crowded in some countries, but frequencies tend to be good to excellent and tickets on unreserved trains, or buses and ferries, can be readily obtained. There might not always be a seat initially in third class on a train, or on a bus, but people manage.

Unfortunately, political correctness in Australia is no 'phantom menace.' It permeates Australian society but this is not the appropriate website to canvass why. It is however sad that it is affecting travellers using both our major airlines or their subsidiaries to try to reach what apart from the combined Trans-Tasman routes is the most popular leisure route for our 23 million countrymen and women.

How the Asian airline management teams must privately laugh at Australians!

 

[TomVexille]

Or are you suggesting most Bali-bound travellers are not intelligent enough to work these things out for themselves and privately organise tickets to get themselves to their intended destination?

Isn't that what we're seeing at the moment??

 

[Mogul]

Sadly, Pushka, political correctness has permeated so much of Australia.

This translates into businesses being unwilling to take what many in Asia would regard as 'normal' behaviour.

So GA flies to DPS; VA and JQ do not. Look at how incredibly politically correct a senior official at QF is!

I am simplifying things a little, because Australian airlines, as someone else pointed out, may for whatever reason have to divert back to DRW if there is a problem in DPS with the ash cloud. Just why they could not divert to an open airport on the island of Java is not explained.

However one cannot fail to observe that the spirit of a can do attitude that saw the Snowy Mountain Scheme completed and so on is more or less dead, or at best in great danger in Australia.

The message for anyone who wants to enjoy a holiday is don't fly with an Australian headquartered airline - patronise the Asian ones instead, because thankfully they don't suffer from the Australian political correctness syndrome.

The other message coming loud and clear from the purveyors of political correctness in Australia is don't ever take any personal risks.

The best place to stay is clearly in your bedroom. (But I forgot - bed bugs lurk and so does the odd larger arachnid. Clearly a dangerous place.)

Can someone please translate?

 

[TomVexille]

Would the crew be 'out of hours?' The permissible numbers vary but in some circumstances the tech crew can work up to 18 (and 20 hours by extension) if I recall. If allowable, that might cover a return Australian east coast - Indonesia trip in such circumstances, obviating the need for a fresh crew to board in Java (who admittedly would be unlikely to be 'in position.')

Based on my 2 minutes of googling so I am not pretending to be an expert. But depending on the "Clock On" time, max FDP (flight duty period) is up to 14 hours and as low as 10. So I do believe that a return to the East Coast is pushing it. Especially after a diversion and the potential issues with refueling (ie. no contracts in place to pay for fuel). It's still a far safer (and cheaper) alternative for the airlines to not take the risk.

 

[incumbent]

Can someone please translate?

"I don't understand what 'political correctness' means, but I like to use the phrase a lot" would be a passable first attempt.

 

[Melburnian1]

Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! shows the interesting track taken by today's (10 November 2015) 0955 timetabled departure JQ43 (B788 VH-VKL) as it took off from MEL for DPS at 1320 hours this afternoon and is now expected back at MEL not long after 2230.

The flight path indicates that the aircraft turned around and instead of heading to DPS returned to MEL from a couple of hundred kilometres northwest of Dampier, WA.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Even if both VA and JQ are being unreasonable and ridiculously risk averse this has absolutely nothing to do with so-called political correctness.
it would have more to do with the dictates of their insurance lawyers.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

But every airline but Australia is flying there. SQ. CX. KLM. Air France. Qatar. Etihad...

Yes Etihad has so many flights to Denpasar ...