Value and cost of a QFF point

[Dave Noble]

Alternately, just because someone isn’t willing, or sometimes able to spend the $3479 in your example doesn’t devalue them any. The ticket if purchased would still cost that amount. Perhaps an easier to understand equivalent would be to us business or first class tickets as a comparison as the costs have less flexibility (and the value higher).

The key word is if . If the ticket would not have been purchased at that price then it is not a saving of that amount. I can only see that savings from FF miles can only be valued mathematically; how can it logically be valued otherwise?

The tax issues are a consideration when comparing against purchased priced; assuming that the ticket would have been purchased then the comparison of QF points plus fines plus taxes vs $3479 plus lower fines which can be paid by purchasing elsewhere plus taxes is relevent; it is nothing to do with value of AA points vs QF points , just AA fines on a purchased ATW vs QF fines on an ATW. The difference in fuel surcharges that can be paid does , imo, reduce the value down since if, say, $500 extra more is charged by QFF in fines than say AA, then the max value would drop to 2979 for example

Dave

 

[straitman]

The key word is if . If the ticket would not have been purchased at that price then it is not a saving of that amount. I can only see that savings from FF miles can only be valued mathematically; how can it logically be valued otherwise?

The tax issues are a consideration when comparing against purchased priced; assuming that the ticket would have been purchased then the comparison of QF points plus fines plus taxes vs $3479 plus lower fines which can be paid by purchasing elsewhere plus taxes is relevent; it is nothing to do with value of AA points vs QF points , just AA fines on a purchased ATW vs QF fines on an ATW. The difference in fuel surcharges that can be paid does , imo, reduce the value down since if, say, $500 extra more is charged by QFF in fines than say AA, then the max value would drop to 2979 for example

Dave

Dave Noble,

To use your own logic. The key word's are if and could and hence the emotional value that people put upon their lives. Someone with limited resources would travel if they could to an important event in their lives. If they had to pay cash they may well choose not to travel and pay the morgage instead.

Re your second paragraph. There was no mention from me of AA vs QF points in the discussion other than a reference to which program an individual chooses for their points and therefore where they draw their points. No other comparison is really valid.

After reading the rest of the para numerous times I'm not sure what you mean other than it's difficult to make a real comparison.

 

[Dave Noble]

Re your second paragraph. There was no mention from me of AA vs QF points in the discussion other than a reference to which program an individual chooses for their points and therefore where they draw their points. No other comparison is really valid.

And my comment was nothing to do with where to accrue/redeem points

Consider..

If purchasing an ATW ticket which costs $3479 base vs using QFF points

When using QFF points, there will be taxes plus QF fuel fines

When purchasing an ATW ticket, subject to being sane and using the cheapest sales point to purchase the ticket ( eg LA / AA rather than QF ) the fare would be $3479 plus taxes plus the significantly lower fuel fines

The difference in fuel fines then needs to be subtracted from the $3479 to give an effective saving; if the difference in fines was $300, for example, then the effective saving is only $3179 not $3479

Even so, I would still maintain that it only can save money against what would have actually been prepared to be paid otherwise why not just compare the value against the price going to a TA which tickets on QF plus adds $200 booking fee and now save $3679 or against the full Y fare and have a huge saving?

Dave

 

[straitman]

And my comment was nothing to do with where to accrue/redeem points

Consider..

If purchasing an ATW ticket which costs $3479 base vs using QFF points

When using QFF points, there will be taxes plus QF fuel fines

When purchasing an ATW ticket, subject to being sane and using the cheapest sales point to purchase the ticket ( eg LA / AA rather than QF ) the fare would be $3479 plus taxes plus the significantly lower fuel fines

The difference in fuel fines then needs to be subtracted from the $3479 to give an effective saving; if the difference in fines was $300, for example, then the effective saving is only $3179 not $3479

Even so, I would still maintain that it only can save money against what would have actually been prepared to be paid otherwise why not just compare the value against the price going to a TA which tickets on QF plus adds $200 booking fee and now save $3679 or against the full Y fare and have a huge saving?

Dave

Dave we've strayed apart in our logic. I've gone along with using the $3479 example for illustration when the case I was really considering, and I mentioned, was business class where the discount we receive makes the only sane ticket a QF ticket including taxes and fines.

Re your last paragraph I'll agree to disagree on the first part because there is value to people other than yourself and you wouldn't do the second unless once again the discount more than pays the TA fee.

 

[JohnK]

If purchasing an ATW ticket which costs $3479 base vs using QFF points

When using QFF points, there will be taxes plus QF fuel fines

When purchasing an ATW ticket, subject to being sane and using the cheapest sales point to purchase the ticket ( eg LA / AA rather than QF ) the fare would be $3479 plus taxes plus the significantly lower fuel fines

The difference in fuel fines then needs to be subtracted from the $3479 to give an effective saving; if the difference in fines was $300, for example, then the effective saving is only $3179 not $3479

So now anyone who does not purchase a RTW ticket from LA/AA is not sane?

I would like to purchase a RTW ticket from QF, my personal preference and easier to deal with, so it would cost $3479 + ~$1100 in taxes and fuel surcharges. So I am prepared to pay approximately $4579. Now if I use QFF points it would require 140,000 QFF points and ~$1100 in taxes and fuel surcharges. So I have saved $3479 which values my QFF points at ~2.5c per point.

How you value AA and QFF points does not enter this equation. Neither does the discussion about lower fuel surcharges if booked through other airlines.

 

[Dave Noble]

So now anyone who does not purchase a RTW ticket from LA/AA is not sane?

Is it sane to deliberately and intentionally to pay a significanntly higher amount for exactly the same ticket? I never considered the relative value of AA vs QF points, however the surcharge differences are valid

Dave

 

[serfty]

OK, it has been well documented here on AFF that an AAdvatage point generally has more value than a Qantas Frequent Flyer Point when booking award flights. This is both through generally less points required and significantly less +++.

I am going to keep this post to the value of Qantas - the value (relative or otherwise) of AAdvantage points or whether it's better to credit to AAdvantage is not relevant here (please refer to the thread title)!

The best value use of Qantas FF points for Award flight bookings is in the "oneworld Award" of 142K QFF points for a "return" routing of up to 35K miles.

A LLONE4 oneworld Economy RTW has a base cost of $3289. If a QFF RTW and LLONE4 were booked via Qantas with the same routings, it is conceivable the +++ would be identical.

Flexibility notwithstanding, I believe it is a fair comparison to say that this values a QFF point when used in this manner at 2.31¢ per point.

Worse value? Compare a one way SYD-MEL award which costs 8K QFF points & +++ of $40 with a one-way red e-deal wich costs $78.83 fare + $7.88 GST + $40 +++. Again, ignoring flexibility issues this values a QFF point at 1.08¢ per point.

For MY personal needs, I don't get good value from QFF award bookings and rarely book award flights. I get far better value in Upgrading on international flights and have been "batting" 1000 for waitlisted international upgrades since becoming a WP.

 

[Reggie]

I get far better value in Upgrading on international flights and have been "batting" 1000 for waitlisted international upgrades since becoming a WP.

Must be the luck of the Irish, or more likely good planning. I'm at 750, from four requests, which is still good. Domestic upgrades were/are extremely low, thats why I decided to pay for J since.

 

[Dave Noble]

A LLONE4 oneworld Economy RTW has a base cost of $3289. If a QFF RTW and LLONE4 were booked with the same routings it is conceivable the +++ would be identical.

It is def conceivable that if the purchased ticket was purchased from QF that the fuel fines would be the same. When using QF points then the QFF fines have to be paid. When purchasing a LONE4, then going to the airlines with the lowest fuel fines is the logical thing to do surely

It is v unlikely imo that unless going to BA, the fuel fines would be the same as QFs rort on fines. The overall saving would , unless the person wants to go to the most expensive airline be $3289 minus the QFF fines plus the LONE4 issuing carrier fines which would v likely be less than $3289 ( this is of course assuming u would class the points to have the same value as a LONE4 )

The relative merits of QF points and AA points are nothing to do with this thread

Dave

 

[auriga]

I would say that another good value Qantas award, would be if you only needed to get a one-way ticket to Asia. It cost 30000 pts +++ to redeem a Y award to BKK, HKG, SIN, NRT etc, which would cost over $1000.

 

[straitman]

I would say that another good value Qantas award, would be if you only needed to get a one-way ticket to Asia. It cost 30000 pts +++ to redeem a Y award to BKK, HKG, SIN, NRT etc, which would cost over $1000.

auriga,

Good point.

I've worked through a few of these and the points value comes out at around 3.5 cents per point.

 

[serfty]

That value is only in relation to one-way fares. Book a return and the value nearly halves.

More than that it is often less expensive ex Asia to Oz. e.g. SIN-SYD can be had on QF for <AUD500 (SGD630).

 

[Dave Noble]

That value is only in relation to one-way fares. Book a return and the value nearly halves.

More than that it is often less expensive ex Asia to Oz. e.g. SIN-SYD can be had on QF for <AUD500 (SGD630).

It also assumes that the expensive QF fare for example would still have been purchased. Going SYD-BKK one way , for example, does cost $979 with BA/QF but drops to $572 if going, for example, on MH. If having to purchase, would the extra $407 be paid or would a cheaper option be taken ; if it would, then the value drops to 1.9c rather than 3.3c

Dave