VA cancelled flights with no alternative

[MH_fan]

Had flights booked with VA to Dunedin for start of October, which have been cancelled. Didn't receive any notification and no alternatives provided either. Managed to get through to their GCC but told nothing they can do as they're in administration and also no official travel bubble yet with NZ. To make matters worse, I'd booked these flights through Fly365, which we all know have now gone into liquidation. The only thing I was advised I could do was to get back to them closer to the time and hope that their flights to Dunedin have been re-instated if the travel bubble goes ahead or , if not, get a credit with them which I'd have to use (as in travel, not just book) before the end of the year. Either that or try to get a refund from the administrators for Fly365.
Urgh...I'm starting to think this trip was never meant to happen! First it was Fly365 going bust, then Covid and the cessation of overseas travel, and then VA going into administration and cancelling their Dunedin flights! It was such a good deal with double SCs thrown in as well.

 

[Melburnian1]

Sometimes things that seem too good to be true are in that category. (But my sympathy to you).

You can't initiate a chargeback if the online travel agent is in liquidation, sadly.

 

[MH_fan]

Looks like I will have to wait until mid September to contact VA again. I'm really hoping that they re-instate their direct Dunedin flight if the travel bubble with NZ gets the go-ahead. Luckily, the flights are from Brisbane, which is much more likely to see the travel bubble than Melbourne!

 

[serfty]

You can't initiate a chargeback if the online travel agent is in liquidation, sadly.

This is incorrect - the banking acquirer (or equivalent) generally has to wear the cost of the refund to the credit/charge card account if the merchant goes into liquidation.

 

[glasszon]

This is incorrect - the banking acquirer generally has to wear the cost of the refund if the merchant goes into liquidation.

And the fact that Fly365 went into liquidation is probably a good thing for MH_Fan, as the bank couldn't refuse the chargeback if Fly365 went into liquidation and couldn't fulfill the contract; whereby MH_Fan would have a much tougher case to claim a chargeback against VA.

 

[MH_fan]

If it comes to initiating a chargeback (on Amex), then so be it. I would prefer to be able to go to Dunedin to visit a very dear friend of mine though.

 

[eastwest101]

If it comes to initiating a chargeback (on Amex), then so be it. I would prefer to be able to go to Dunedin to visit a very dear friend of mine though.

Others may know more about this but this should be a slam dunk chargeback through your Amex credit card provider. And if you get any pushback/run around attempts from your credit card provider it's go directly to AFCA, do not pass go do not collect $200 etc etc

Get your money back in your own pocket and then decide how, when and if you want to go to NZ in the future, you are a customer of Fly365, not an unsecured credit provider for failed businesses.

 

[MH_fan]

I'm assuming that I don't initiate the chargeback until after the date of when the first flight is meant to take place?

 

[TheInsider]

I'm assuming that I don't initiate the chargeback until after the date of when the first flight is meant to take place?

No, initiate the chargeback asap.

 

[eastwest101]

I'm assuming that I don't initiate the chargeback until after the date of when the first flight is meant to take place?

I know there are a lot more knowledgeable poster on here than me, but I would like to know given that Fly365 is already in administration if there is anything in the timing of the chargeback that would make your case stronger (more of a slam dunk) or weaker for a chargeback. Can anyone forsee any regulatory/credit provider/travel sector specific/ACCC changes in the future that would make chargebacks more difficult or easier for situations such as this? Assuming that Covid19 travel restrictions continue to impede airlines operating and assuming Fly365 is dead buried and cremated? Both fairly safe assumptions to make at the moment.

I would have thought it would be preferable to act sooner rather than later to recover any money as otherwise you will be fighting against a leisurely administration process to wind-up Fly365 with all its attendant fees and delays. They can dine out for years on processes such as this. But that's just me.

Will be watching with interest - good luck.

 

[MH_fan]

Forgot to add that the ticket also included a domestic segment that's still running, so instead of Dunedin as my final destination, it's Brisbane. Will my attempt at a chargeback be affected because I still have valid segments on my ticket?

 

[bluesfemme]

Had flights booked with VA to Dunedin for start of October, which have been cancelled. Didn't receive any notification and no alternatives provided either. Managed to get through to their GCC but told nothing they can do as they're in administration and also no official travel bubble yet with NZ. To make matters worse, I'd booked these flights through Fly365, which we all know have now gone into liquidation. The only thing I was advised I could do was to get back to them closer to the time and hope that their flights to Dunedin have been re-instated if the travel bubble goes ahead or , if not, get a credit with them which I'd have to use (as in travel, not just book) before the end of the year. Either that or try to get a refund from the administrators for Fly365.
Urgh...I'm starting to think this trip was never meant to happen! First it was Fly365 going bust, then Covid and the cessation of overseas travel, and then VA going into administration and cancelling their Dunedin flights! It was such a good deal with double SCs thrown in as well.

There's a group of flyers on FB that have been vey successful in supporting each other to get refunds. It's a private group so you'll have to apply. Hopefully it helps!
Fly365 Liquidation - support group

 

[Uzerid]

This is incorrect - the banking acquirer (or equivalent) generally has to wear the cost of the refund to the credit/charge card account if the merchant goes into liquidation.

Don’t quite follow. I am in a similar boat. If Virgin are in Administration and I seek a chargeback from MasterCard via my bank, then does this mean MasterCard must give me back my money if Virgin was unable to provide the flights during the shutdown?

 

[Port Power]

Forgot to add that the ticket also included a domestic segment that's still running, so instead of Dunedin as my final destination, it's Brisbane. Will my attempt at a chargeback be affected because I still have valid segments on my ticket?

If your ticket is from home via BNE to Dunedin, it is therefore one trip. You would initiate a charge back on the return trip (the whole ticket). It would only be affected if you were stopping over in Brisbane for a visit before continuing on, not just overnighting between flights.

 

[equus]

MasterCard must give me back my money

Not quite, Mastercard and VISA are card schemes (think of them as a brand and a set of rules). Two sorts of organisations belong to the schemes (and often the organisations belong on both sides). Issuers issue cards to customers to make purchases. Acquirers provide facilities to merchants to allow them to take payments on carrds.

When you make a purchase, the (normally bank) issuer that issued your card pays the money to the (again normally a bank) the provided (acquired) the facility to the merchant you are paying. The acquirer then passes the money on to the merchant, and the issuer collects the money from you (or charges you interest). The acquirer charges the merchant - normally a monthly fee, terminal rental (if applicable) and a percentage rate on the transactions.

If a charge back occurs, and is not successfully disputed, then the acquirer has to pay the money back to the issuer. It is then the acquirer's problem to get the money back from the merchant - and if they can't, then they end up wearing the cost. This is why credit checks are made when a merchant facility is provided - and it also accounts for different rates of merchant fee (pricing risk).

When the issuer and acquirer are the same (as is the case with Amex and Diners, and can be the same if your bank happens to be the acquirer), you often find more hoops and hurdles being imposed when requesting a charge back from a merchant known to be in trouble - as the acquirer knows that it is likely to be out of pocket.

 

[albatross710]

Don’t quite follow. I am in a similar boat. If Virgin are in Administration and I seek a chargeback from MasterCard via my bank, then does this mean MasterCard must give me back my money if Virgin was unable to provide the flights during the shutdown?

Fly365 is 'liquidation' ie the business is being converted to only cash and what cash remains getting distributed to creditors.

Virgin is under 'administration' with the administrators trying to get the best outcome for you (as a creditor). The banks will want to see what value you might be offered ie travel voucher. They may not resolve it immediately.

In both cases though, your card provider is a party to the transaction. You should lodge a dispute as soon as possible. It doesn't cost anything.

Alby

 

[equus]

It should definitely be disputed as soon as possible. Check exactly who billed your credit card - if the charge cam from Fly365 (processed through their merchant facility), then it is most likely the charge back will be approved fairly quickly.

It then becomes am issue for the Fly365 liquidator as to what (if anything) they can get back from the VA administrator / new purchaser 0 but won't be your problem as you should have your money back.

 

[Matt_01]

When the issuer and acquirer are the same (as is the case with Amex and Diners, and can be the same if your bank happens to be the acquirer), you often find more hoops and hurdles being imposed when requesting a charge back from a merchant known to be in trouble - as the acquirer knows that it is likely to be out of pocket.

100% agree and I have been going through the process with AMEX. over a month ago AMEX found in my favour but have since reversed the decision. I have received copies of the information that VA provided AMEX. After seeing what has been provided I will be asking for cases to be reopened. A couple of points that I noted is that is a travel bank credit was issued VA are providing all the relevant detail e.g. amount, expiry date evidence of the refund. As for conditional credits VA are telling AMEX a conditional credits have been issued and that is the end of it, they do not go onto detail what this means. VA were also happy to provide VA with an extract from their conditions of carriage highlighting section 12.5 and underlining events beyond reasonable control, however did not provide details of the Guest Compensation policy which details refunds will be given.

I feel that I am in an uphill battle with AMEX.

 

[theblank]

Looks like I will have to wait until mid September to contact VA again. I'm really hoping that they re-instate their direct Dunedin flight if the travel bubble with NZ gets the go-ahead. Luckily, the flights are from Brisbane, which is much more likely to see the travel bubble than Melbourne!

no chance. Its clear Fly365 has not paid VA for your ticket, so VA aint gunna let you on that plane.

Ring your credit card provider and tell them that you have not received the services that you paid for, and request a chargeback. Say these words first, very important!

if you start rabbiting on about the virus and virgin cancelling and liquidation blah blah, they will just tell you to take it up with the travel agent. You must insist on saying what i said in bold, keep repeating this.

My wife did this couple years ago for almost exact same situation. she had argued with various people for months. She never told me because I have always warned her about buying from OTA's. Once i found out, took one phone call and the refund was done.

 

[MH_fan]

Update: I initiated a cc chargeback for my cancelled VA flights at the beginning of August. Still nothing or no update from my cc after a little over 2 months. Is this normal? I didn't think it took so long.