V Australia's long-haul burden (MEL-JHB)

[Warks]

V Australia's new air link to Johannesburg comes with 'baggage', writes Clive Dorman.
Virgin Blue's long-haul international carrier, V Australia, launched services last week on what is believed to be the most remote air route ever flown by a twin-engine aircraft between Australia and South Africa.
The Melbourne-Johannesburg route is only 10,339 kilometres - about the same as Auckland to Los Angeles - but rules governing the operation of twin-engine planes require V Australia to add more than two hours to the flight in each direction.
This is to ensure that the 361-seat Boeing 777-300ER can stay within about 1500 kilometres of the nearest airport if anything goes wrong - a maximum of three hours flying on one engine if the other engine has to be shut down.

V Australia's long-haul burden

Would you fly it? I don't care how cheap it is - that many hours in a 777 is some form of torture. Actually any plane in my book.

Imagine what that three hour flight "if something goes wrong" would be like!

 

[dajop]

V Australia's long-haul burden

Would you fly it? I don't care how cheap it is - that many hours in a 777 is some form of torture. Actually any plane in my book.

No problems, spent 16 hrs in 777 in whY (JFK-HKG) no dramas. Have spent longer in A340 (18 hrs EWR-SIN) but that was in J so doesn't count.

Oh and what is worse is spending 90mins to get to SYD, 90 minutes connecting, 60 minutes in the air, and you look down and see MEL airport beneath you, so in that 4 hours all you've done is climbed 3x,000 feet.... (OK its JNB-SYD that often passes over MEL, SYD-JNB passes more to the east of MEL, but you get the idea).

 

[notzac]

QF blocks LAX-MEL at a leisurely 15h 25m, 10 minutes more than VA's MEL-JNB service - and while I agree that that length of time in any carriers' whY is some form of cruel and unusual punishment, I've survived it before.

Would you say the same thing if it was a QF 744 operating the service? Playing the devil's advocate, but I'm genuinely curious.

 

[anat0l]

I survived 14 hours on a QF 744 flying SYD-JNB in Y (although row 40 had a nice amount of leg room).

Being crook and only wanting not much more than sleep did help (when you're asleep you're not awake to complain about having to fly this wretchedly long longhaul flight in Y).

No reason why VA's MEL-JNB flight would be - per se - any less tolerable.

 

[Warks]

For one who wants to go to Joburg anyway? Ex-Saffers I suppose and people wanting to go to Kruger. I spent time there in 1990 and it was considered dodgy (I even stayed in the Hillbrow area) then but it's about 10 000 times worse now. Yes I know it's a jumping off point to other southern African places.

I guess it's the idea of making the flight two hours longer when it doesn't have to be. I'm sure I'm not alone in hating the long haul and a minute less (or fewer) on a plane is a good minute. Even in J it gets old. And the more engines the better! (not including the Spruce Goose)

 

[mannej]

Nothing wrong with twin jets in this day and age

(Well you don't get much choice from PER anyways)

If you don't like either doubling back or spending 15 hours on the one flight, there is always the option of QF303 via PER, but then again the transit is not worth it is it?

 

[anat0l]

For one who wants to go to Joburg anyway? Ex-Saffers I suppose and people wanting to go to Kruger. I spent time there in 1990 and it was considered dodgy (I even stayed in the Hillbrow area) then but it's about 10 000 times worse now. Yes I know it's a jumping off point to other southern African places.

I guess it's the idea of making the flight two hours longer when it doesn't have to be. I'm sure I'm not alone in hating the long haul and a minute less (or fewer) on a plane is a good minute. Even in J it gets old. And the more engines the better! (not including the Spruce Goose)

Some interesting points.

I really enjoyed South Africa when I went there for a brief visit last year. Admittedly, most of it was work, work, work, but on the weekends we had a "no talk about shop" policy (or at least I was heavily indoctrinated into following it). Also, I didn't spend a lot of time at all in Jo'burg, but it was my point of entry, and frankly coming from Australia, that is the only point of entry.

I don't know what Hillbrow was like in times gone by but going there now is really just asking for trouble plus some. Needless to say, South Africa (Jo'burg) isn't the safest country/city in the world, but for what it's worth the reputation isn't as bad as it seems. However, that and DFAT warnings didn't stop my university from mandating strict procedures on how I was to travel in and out of Jo'burg if travelling alone (e.g. I was not allowed to plan any travel using taxis, I had to stay close to the airport on my overnighter before I had to go North to my work location and I had a strict communication plan in place. Tough, perhaps overkiller, measures....)

Some people may hate long haul (I guess that's why SYD-LHR non-stops don't exist any more), but the alternative is to then take an indirect, or fly from PER. Depending on your leanings, they might not be great options either.

 

[browski]

The VAustralia MEL-JNB service is fantastic and most welcome. From MEL, try flying with any of the alternatives (SQ, QF, EK, MH, CX, EY, QR) and you will arrive at JNB in far worse shape (and later).

There is another not-so-obvious, yet brilliant advantage to this service - you can regularly buy an economy one-way fare for less than AUD $900.

This means that you can now create your own Circle Africa - Asia trip (say MEL-JNB-BOM-SIN-MEL) for under $3000 in economy.

Happy Days.

 

[dajop]

and a minute less (or fewer) on a plane is a good minute.

We're all different I guess. For me once it gets past 12 hours, it's a long flight, an extra hour or two makes no difference 13 hrs, 14 hrs, 15 hrs , 16hrs - all the same . Just get off one of those and get onto a 3-6hr flight, the second one will seem like a very short hop!

 

[harvyk]

Imagine what that three hour flight "if something goes wrong" would be like!

To be honest, the "if something goes wrong" flight (eg an inflight engine shutdown) you are looking at a 1 in 6,600 chance of that happening. If the odds of "if" where any more likely the plane wouldn't be able to be certified to fly that route so far south.

The only way an airline would be allowed to fly that route in a twin engine is if they can proove that they have no more than 1 engine shutdown in 100,000 hours of operation.

 

[markis10]

The only way an airline would be allowed to fly that route in a twin engine is if they can proove that they have no more than 1 engine shutdown in 100,000 hours of operation.

Thats not true for Australian holders of operators certificates, its a FAA requirement I believe.
CAO82 appendix 4 refers to the the approval for an operator to conduct such operations, specifically extra equipment, maintenance and alternate destination requirements are set down. I doubt VA would have 10000 hours of operation yet, thats 4.5 years of flying 4 aircraft a day on the LAX route.

 

[docjames]

I guess that's why SYD-LHR non-stops don't exist any more

Uh, i dont think there's ever been nonstops (not commercial at least).

 

[anat0l]

Uh, i dont think there's ever been nonstops (not commercial at least).

Ah well. My mistake.

Not that it has at least been considered. 17-18 hours in a bird esp. in Y might hurt a bit.

The longest scheduled flight is the SQ flight from EWR-SIN on an A345. That is configured as all J, however, which makes it a bit easier for those onboard.

 

[serfty]

...
The longest scheduled flight is the SQ flight from EWR-SIN on an A345. That is configured as all J, however, which makes it a bit easier for those onboard.

... of course, all J means less PAX and less Luggage ---> greater Fuel load capacity on take-off.

 

[Flying Fox]

I guess that's why SYD-LHR non-stops don't exist any more

From memory QF did the maths with a 777-200LR in all J config and it would still require a 20-30% premium on current J airfares. YIKES!