V Australia to fly to South Africa

[NM]

From Travel Weekly:

Virgin Blue offshoot V Australia has filed an application with the government to fly five services per week between Sydney and Johannesburg.

 

[oz_mark]

Wonder what flight path/stopovers they will take to get there. Don't think 777's can't take the most direct way of getting there.

 

[docjames]

They should have the legs ex-PER

 

[dot]

A 773 (max range 11,135 km) would just be able to do SYD-JNB (11,116 km) assuming the winds are not working against them, while a 773ER (max range 14,685 km) or 772LR (max range 17,500 km)would do it easy. As V Aust will have 773ERs, I would imagine they will fly direct.

I find it a curious choice though - admitedly, not much competition on the route, but I would not have thought there was that much demand either... Are the QF and SA flights heavily loaded? I would have thought a MEL-LAX route or SYD-HKG/SIN/NRT/BKK would have been more likely choices, but that's just my thoughts...

 

[NM]

A 773 (max range 11,135 km) would just be able to do SYD-JNB (11,116 km) assuming the winds are not working against them, while a 773ER (max range 14,685 km) or 772LR (max range 17,500 km)would do it easy. As V Aust will have 773ERs, I would imagine they will fly direct.

The issue is more about ETOPS requirements rather than endurance.

 

[maninblack]

The issue is more about ETOPS requirements rather than endurance.

Quite right. SYD/PER-JNB is out under ETOPS regs for twins. So what are V Australia thinking here? maybe they are going to lease a couple of A340's or 744's :?: This is why Air Mauritius, SAA have A340's and LAN for that matter going the other direction.

I would have thought there are better routes to attack

 

[stuartfaz]

A 773 (max range 11,135 km) would just be able to do SYD-JNB (11,116 km) assuming the winds are not working against them, while a 773ER (max range 14,685 km) or 772LR (max range 17,500 km)would do it easy. As V Aust will have 773ERs, I would imagine they will fly direct.

I find it a curious choice though - admitedly, not much competition on the route, but I would not have thought there was that much demand either... Are the QF and SA flights heavily loaded? I would have thought a MEL-LAX route or SYD-HKG/SIN/NRT/BKK would have been more likely choices, but that's just my thoughts...

I think VA have stated before (though I could be mistaken) that they will be reserving one of the 773ER's for Asian destinations.

I too thought that MEL-LAX or flights to SIN, HKG, NRT were next. However, I think JNB could work for them starting when they plan to, they'd have a pretty good opportunity to build on strong demand because of the FIFA World Cup on mid-2010.

 

[NM]

Quite right. SYD/PER-JNB is out under ETOPS regs for twins. So what are V Australia thinking here? maybe they are going to lease a couple of A340's or 744's :?: This is why Air Mauritius, SAA have A340's and LAN for that matter going the other direction.[/quore]
Boeing built the 777-300ER to meet ETOPS 330 minute requirements and have proven its capability.

Of course there is no such certification currently, but Boeing are still pushing forward it for both the 777-300ER (and -200LR) and the future 787. And no doubt Airbus will want to support it for their A350 aircraft. I have no insight into any possible timeframes for such a certification, but 330 mins would make SYD-JNB accissible via the great circle route.

Under ETOPS 207 min rules (180 mins + 15%), SYD-JNB will be well within the endurance range for the 777-300ER via a more northerly routing.

 

[docjames]

Not much competition would be the attraction i would think.

 

[oz_mark]

Under ETOPS 207 min rules (180 mins + 15%), SYD-JNB will be well within the endurance range for the 777-300ER via a more northerly routing.

Would that be all year round? I imagine the head winds would be more significant on the northerly tracks. I understand the QF JNB-SYD flights often have a more northerly track to pick up tailwinds. SYD-JNB would however have a headwind problem (or maybe you could do a pitstop in PER to refuel if needed)

 

[NM]

Would that be all year round? I imagine the head winds would be more significant on the northerly tracks. I understand the QF JNB-SYD flights often have a more northerly track to pick up tailwinds. SYD-JNB would however have a headwind problem (or maybe you could do a pitstop in PER to refuel if needed)

don't know the prevailing winds over the southern ocean, so not able to answer that one. I would hope the experts at VA have checked those minor details before applying for traffic rights.

 

[maninblack]

don't know the prevailing winds over the southern ocean, so not able to answer that one. I would hope the experts at VA have checked those minor details before applying for traffic rights.

They may get traffic rights, which is one matter but I think that you will find that Twin engined aircraft are currently not certified to fly AUS to South Africa direct no matter what route they take under a special regulation, so unless that regulation is changed they cannot do this service in a 777-300er without it including a scheduled stop, perhaps in MLE or Mauritius. (which may also be ETOPS excuded) ETOPS 207 has not been granted except as a special exemption on North Pacific routes.

 

[NM]

They may get traffic rights, which is one matter but I think that you will find that Twin engined aircraft are currently not certified to fly AUS to South Africa direct no matter what route they take under a special regulation, so unless that regulation is changed they cannot do this service in a 777-300er without it including a scheduled stop, perhaps in MLE or Mauritius. (which may also be ETOPS excuded) ETOPS 207 has not been granted except as a special exemption on North Pacific routes.

Flying over MRU (without stopping) between Australia and South Africa can be done by a 777-300ER under ETOPS 180. Routing SYD-JNB overflying PER and MRU to remain within ETOPS 180 airspace would result in a flown distance of around 150 miles further than SYD-LAX. Of course this is considering the affects of prevailing winds and they may well be planning a stop at MRU.

Air Mauritius (MU) has operated 767 aircraft on the MRU-PER route for several years, temporarily replacing this service with the current A340-300 aircraft while they await deliivery of new A330-200 aircraft. So there is no problem operating twin engine aircraft MRU-PER.

 

[codash1099]

Maybe they plan to fly the route used by the old Constellations - not sure whether CCK can handle big jets :mrgreen:

 

[JohnK]

I find it a curious choice though - admitedly, not much competition on the route, but I would not have thought there was that much demand either... Are the QF and SA flights heavily loaded? I would have thought a MEL-LAX route or SYD-HKG/SIN/NRT/BKK would have been more likely choices, but that's just my thoughts...

Scheduling flights earlier in the day from SYD-HKG/SIN/BKK may have been a better idea than SYD-JNB. On these routes CX, SQ and TG appear to be successful with multiple flights a day. Very little choice with QF.

 

[stuartfaz]

To update on this, VA were granted immediate access for 5 weekly services to South Africa yesterday.

The Virgin Group carrier has been given immediate access and a total capacity of five weekly services between Sydney and Johannesburg using B777–300ER aircraft with a capacity of 361 seats.

In a statement the International Air Services Commission (IASC) says, “The Commission notes that the South Africa route has been characterised by limited competition for some time.”


“There are only two direct operators, Qantas and South African Airways (SAA), and they operate to separate points in Australia (Sydney and Perth respectively). Such competition as there is between them comes via a code share arrangement.”


Additionally, the IASC comments on growing traffic figures on the routes, especially during peak periods, but a lack of capacity operated by the duopoly.

Services will likely start by the time VA get their 5th 777-300, mid-to-late 2009.

See e-Travel Blackboard: V Australia granted immediate access to South Africa

 

[Sprucegoose]

A 773 (max range 11,135 km) would just be able to do SYD-JNB (11,116 km) assuming the winds are not working against them, while a 773ER (max range 14,685 km) or 772LR (max range 17,500 km)would do it easy. As V Aust will have 773ERs, I would imagine they will fly direct.

I find it a curious choice though - admitedly, not much competition on the route, but I would not have thought there was that much demand either... Are the QF and SA flights heavily loaded? I would have thought a MEL-LAX route or SYD-HKG/SIN/NRT/BKK would have been more likely choices, but that's just my thoughts...

Very good loadings especially at the pointy end. Do it once a month. A most profitable route.

 

[Sprucegoose]

don't know the prevailing winds over the southern ocean, so not able to answer that one. I would hope the experts at VA have checked those minor details before applying for traffic rights.

Lindsay they can be quite strong 200-350km/hr and the routing can go up to 70deg south, over parts of the pole.

A very lonely part of the world, especially if batteries needed charging or oxy tanks require refilling............

 

[NM]

Lindsay they can be quite strong 200-350km/hr and the routing can go up to 70deg south, over parts of the pole.

A very lonely part of the world, especially if batteries needed charging or oxy tanks require refilling............

A twin jet operating a commercial service is not going to be going that far south. It haas to remain within the certified ETOPS coverage area.

 

[oz_mark]

To update on this, VA were granted immediate access for 5 weekly services to South Africa yesterday.



Services will likely start by the time VA get their 5th 777-300, mid-to-late 2009.

See e-Travel Blackboard: V Australia granted immediate access to South Africa

So I guess the sale fares that QF announced to South Africa was a co-incidence?