Upgraded to Business with $$$ on Check-in on FJ, want Business Earn from QFF

[coles525]

Here is what the boarding passes say, as well as the upgrade purchase receipt. They have been sent to QFF. Deletions have been made to some details on the photo here.

Person at check in told us we were allowed more weight in the suitcases, as well as saying that we now have access to the business lounge, just show the boarding passes when we enter. Was also given priority bag tags for when we collect.

 

[Austman]

I've paid for the airport upgrade on FJ and have not received the J-class QFF points or Status Credits. But good luck, you might be lucky!

All other airport upgrades that I have used have also had their FF earnings based on the original ticket, even if extra luggage allowances and lounge access were offered.

These upgrades are often at a cheaper price than the J-class fare. But with FJ, I found the difference often wasn't much (especially ex Fiji), so I just bought the J-class fares on my future FJ flights and got the J-class QFF points and Status Credits.

 

[coles525]

Just off the phone to QFF (they rang me), in which they say it's not allowed under the following conditions of use:

"9.3.1 Subject to clauses 9.3.2 and 9.4, Points for air travel may be earned only for paid travel or Any Seat Awards (excluding for the avoidance of doubt any Classic Award) on regular scheduled flights where a Qantas flight number (or the flight number of any oneworld Alliance Airline or Airline Partner not excluded under clause 9.4) is entered on the Itinerary ('Eligible Flight')."

Any smart bums there who can define Itinerary / eligible flights? Doeas that 100% mean original booking receipt?

 

[serfty]

Not sure of the relevance in relation to the flight you took. FJ931 was the flight Number ans going by the BP, your QF FF number was indeed entered. Did you earn any points/SC's at all (even for N Class)?

'Eligible Flight' has the meaning given in clause 9.3.1;

...

9.3 Earning Qantas points for air travel



9.3.1 Subject to clauses 9.3.2 and 9.4, Points for air travel may be earned only for paid travel or Any Seat Awards (excluding for the avoidance of doubt any Classic Award) on regular scheduled flights where a Qantas flight number (or the flight number of any oneworld Alliance Airline or Airline Partner not excluded under clause 9.4) is entered on the Itinerary ('Eligible Flight').


9.3.2 For the purposes of earning Points, Status Credits and the Minimum Points Guarantee, Eligible Flights exclude a flight on a Qantas aircraft, where another airline's flight number is entered on the ticket, unless that flight has been specified by Qantas as an Eligible Flight. It is the responsibility of the Member to check whether a proposed booking is eligible to earn Points, Status Credits or the Minimum Points Guarantee and if so how many Points or Status Credits will be earned.

...


9.4 Qantas points are not earned on all flights
9.4.1 Points are not earned for travel on:
(a) flights or booking classes that are not listed in or are excluded in the Airline Earning Table;
(b) infant fares (infant fares do not include infants travelling in their own paid seat);
(c) charter flights;
(d) freighter flights;
(e) free tickets or Classic Awards;
(f) travel industry rebated tickets;
(g) competition prize tickets;
(h) transport other than air transport unless specified by Qantas;
(i) tickets acquired at an auction; or
(j) tickets which are restricted from earning Points or are subject to any specific provisions excluding the accumulation of Points.

 

[Danger]

I agree with serfty.QF is way off the ball here. It's as if QF is implying the FJ flight number, period, is not eligible for earning, regardless of booking class. 9.3.1 is entirely irrelevant to your situation.

 

[Austman]

Yes. QF probably gave you the right answer but for the wrong reason. I've flown on FJ issued tickets with an FJ flight number and have earned both QFF points and QFF SCs. Like QF say you should:

Frequent Flyer - Earning Points - Fly - Airline Partners

When flying on eligible Fiji Airways fares and flights with a FJ flight number, you can:

• earn points,
• earn Status credits,
• earn a Cabin bonus.

This is about a paid upgrade at check-in earning increased QFF points and QFF SCs.

 

[coles525]

In reference to what is or isnt allowed, QFF are prepared to credit cabin class (cattle / economy) of original booking ("reference number").

They say the upgrade we paid for at the checkin is refused, due to the condition copied above, which is bold/underlined.

 

[Austman]

In reference to what is or isnt allowed, QFF are prepared to credit cabin class (cattle / economy) of original booking ("reference number").

They say the upgrade we paid for at the checkin is refused, due to the condition copied above, which is bold/underlined.

Could it mean the originally booked itinerary? And that paid airport upgrades don't change that itinerary (like an OP-UP doesn't change it either)? To get the J-class points and SCs you'd need to cancel and get a new itinerary?

 

[BD1959]

In reference to what is or isnt allowed, QFF are prepared to credit cabin class (cattle / economy) of original booking ("reference number").

They say the upgrade we paid for at the checkin is refused, due to the condition copied above, which is bold/underlined.

Reading between the lines here, it seems to me that QFF are following the rules to the letter (literally!).

Even in Business Class, there are some fares which are eligible and there are some fares which are not (a prize Business Class ticket, for example, would normally be in a fare class which does not earn points/SCs).

In order for QF to grant you the Business Class SCs and points, you need to show QFF that you have travelled under an eligible fare class. You can't show that because it appears that even though you travelled in the Business Class cabin, FJ were still transporting you on the N-Class fare. If this is not the case, the onus is on you to prove you travelled in an eligible Business Class Fare Type: C,D,I,J,Z.

If you cannot do this, QFF quite rightly will credit at the level at which you can prove.

This is why they requested:

Ticket - which shows the original Fare Class
BPs (some BPs will display the Fare Class)
MCO - in case this stipulates a change in Fare Class (do they ever? - maybe QFF are covering all bases)

Since none of these - as scanned - show a change in Fare Class, as much as it may seem unfair (excuse the pun) it looks like QFF are applying the letter of the T&Cs.

Incidentally, I did look at the QF T&Cs and the only time it mentions Fares being credit at their originally purchased level is when purchasing an ASA. So it looks as though there is "freedom to move" within the T&Cs should you Purchase an OpUp and it stipulates the new "Booking Class" which then becomes an "Eligible Booking Class". Not sure if this is intentional or not.

Regards,

BD

 

[coles525]

Reading between the lines here, it seems to me that QFF are following the rules to the letter (literally!).

Even in Business Class, there are some fares which are eligible and there are some fares which are not (a prize Business Class ticket, for example, would normally be in a fare class which does not earn points/SCs).

In order for QF to grant you the Business Class SCs and points, you need to show QFF that you have travelled under an eligible fare class. You can't show that because it appears that even though you travelled in the Business Class cabin, FJ were still transporting you on the N-Class fare. If this is not the case, the onus is on you to prove you travelled in an eligible Business Class Fare Type: C,D,I,J,Z.

If you cannot do this, QFF quite rightly will credit at the level at which you can prove.

This is why they requested:

Ticket - which shows the original Fare Class
BPs (some BPs will display the Fare Class)
MCO - in case this stipulates a change in Fare Class (do they ever? - maybe QFF are covering all bases)

Since none of these - as scanned - show a change in Fare Class, as much as it may seem unfair (excuse the pun) it looks like QFF are applying the letter of the T&Cs.

Incidentally, I did look at the QF T&Cs and the only time it mentions Fares being credit at their originally purchased level is when purchasing an ASA. So it looks as though there is "freedom to move" within the T&Cs should you Purchase an OpUp and it stipulates the new "Booking Class" which then becomes an "Eligible Booking Class". Not sure if this is intentional or not.

Regards,

BD

The MCO scan has written that an upgrade to J class has been purchased.

 

[Austman]

The MCO scan has written that an upgrade to J class has been purchased.

But the MCO doesn't change the booked itinerary. That seems to be your problem.

I was not awarded the upgraded points and SCs either when I did this on FJ. And that seems to be common across the industry for airport paid upgrades.

 

[Danger]

In reference to what is or isnt allowed, QFF are prepared to credit cabin class (cattle / economy) of original booking ("reference number").

They say the upgrade we paid for at the checkin is refused, due to the condition copied above, which is bold/underlined.

Your bolded text only says you need a valid flight number on your ticket. You did have a valid flight number on your ticket, as Austman highlighted.

 

[BD1959]

But the MCO doesn't change the booked itinerary. That seems to be your problem.

I was not awarded the upgraded points and SCs either when I did this on FJ. And that seems to be common across the industry for airport paid upgrades.

... and I think herein lies the issue.

"Booked" is not "Originally Purchased Fare Class". If FJ were to re-book the OP into J then that would be eligible. QF will probably argue (correctly) that the MCO does not constitute a re-booking - they will probably state that in this instance "J" reflects the common shorthand for "Business" rather than the actual Fare Class.

If the OP were to say that they were led to believe that this was a rebooking into a J fare class ... I wonder what QF would say ... and whether FJ might change their shorthand in future.

Regards,

BD

 

[serfty]

In reference to what is or isnt allowed, QFF are prepared to credit cabin class (cattle / economy) of original booking ("reference number").
...

This is as per the T&C's - it was likely to be the case from the moment you employed the term upgrade (as per my post #14).

 

[sydflyer]

I was offered and took up a USD$150 Y to J upgrade on a JL flight to NRT when I checked in at JFK at the start of last year. Only Y points and SCs credited but I seem to recall that was mentioned at the time.

But the MCO doesn't change the booked itinerary. That seems to be your problem.

I was not awarded the upgraded points and SCs either when I did this on FJ. And that seems to be common across the industry for airport paid upgrades.

 

[William Chau]

They've told you the wrong clause but applied the right reasoning - see below:

"Clause 9.5.1. A Cabin Class Bonus may apply for travel on an Eligible Flight in Premium Economy, Business or First class, Jetstar Business Max fares, and, in the case of British Airways, in World Traveller Plus, as specified in the Airline Earning Table. Any applicable Cabin Class Bonus will be credited according to the class booked for travel, not the cabin flown or any waitlisted class. Cabin Class Bonuses will not be credited for unpaid travel in, or unpaid upgrades to, a higher class. Members should check the Airline Earning Table for details. Cabin Class Bonuses do not apply to Classic Awards."[Emphasis mine]

The reason why is for both of the following reasons:
- Your flight was booked in economy but you flew in business.
- An at the gate upgrade, is an upgrade in respect of a waitlisted class; that is, the upgrade offered at the gate is not the same as rebooking a flight in business - it is only offered if, and when, there is flight availability (hence, waitlist).

 

[thecat]

Just thought I'd add in my 2 cents in here. I recently flew home MXP-xDXB-MEL on EK (with EK codes too, so only talking points) having originally purchased a J class fare. The thought of an F suite on the A380 out of DXB was too hard to resist however, so at the sales desk in Milan I paid a cash upgrade to F to snag one of the last remaining seats (cheers ExpertFlyer!).

After reading through this thread though I began to wonder whether the extra cabin bonus points would come through, given I wasn't exactly sure how the "upgrade" was indeed processed. Whilst it took three weeks for the points to eventually post, to my delight the F status bonus had been applied, and I was able to avoid a call to QFF trying to push my case without using the U word.

I know my case is slightly different to the OP in that I went through a sales desk rather than the check in counter itself, but at least for others considering an EK airport cash upgrade, know that its more than likely that the extra points will come through!

 

[Austman]

I know my case is slightly different to the OP in that I went through a sales desk rather than the check in counter itself, but at least for others considering an EK airport cash upgrade, know that its more than likely that the extra points will come through!

A sales desk would usually not be offering a stand-by/check-in-counter/last-minute upgrade at a heavily discounted price. They would be re-issuing the ticket in a new booking class after the appropriate fare adjustment. The re-issued ticket with the new booking class should then get the appropriate FF points etc.

 

[MelUser]

Yes - terminology is the key here.

The passenger paid for and rebooked into business class prior to taking the flight.

On another note - I once had a NZ flight numbered codeshare FJ metal flight which at the airport I did what this pax did and I successfully told QFF that I had rebooked into FJ in J class (which is what the bit of paper showed (or so I argued and they accepted))!

Never did I (or would I recommend) using the word "upgrade" - this connotes points upgrade or OPUP.