Updated Air Services agreement between Australia and Indonesia

[Aussie_flyer]

WSI -DPS not PER.

DPS-SYD-MEL vs DPS-MEL is double the travel time is my point, with barely any time to sleep anyway it's not worth the detour for the A330 imo

 

[Saab34]

Still no application from VA. They close on Monday.

 

[Harrison_133]

Virgin's application is up.

They've requested 5086 seats to be used for:

MEL-DPS extra 4 weekly from December 2026
SYD-DPS extra 4 weekly from March 2027
PER-DPS 17 weekly from June 2027
BNE-DPS extra 3 weekly from September 2027

https://www.iasc.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/1.1-application-for-allocation-of-capacity-indonesia-route.pdf

 

[jrfsp]

Virgin's application is up.

They've requested 5086 seats to be used for:

MEL-DPS extra 4 weekly from December 2026
SYD-DPS extra 4 weekly from March 2027
PER-DPS 17 weekly from June 2027
BNE-DPS extra 3 weekly from September 2027

https://www.iasc.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/1.1-application-for-allocation-of-capacity-indonesia-route.pdf

Pretty much as expected, i wouldn’t be surprised if the allocation gets split down the middle.

 

[markis10]

Pretty much as expected, i wouldn’t be surprised if the allocation gets split down the middle.

Personally I would hope VA get the lion share.

 

[SeaWolf]

For the proposed schedules where they're both using the 1234567 notation to indicate the proposed days of operations, that's Monday as 1 and Sunday as 7 isn't it?
I'm pretty sure that's how the IATA system works. So where it's indicated as .23..67 that would be services on Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday.

 

[AIRwin]

For the proposed schedules where they're both using the 1234567 notation to indicate the proposed days of operations, that's Monday as 1 and Sunday as 7 isn't it?
I'm pretty sure that's how the IATA system works. So where it's indicated as .23..67 that would be services on Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday.

Yes this is the convention

 

[Harrison_133]

Personally I would hope VA get the lion share.

They would have a compelling case.

Both carriers will now need to address additional criteria under Section 9 of the IASC Policy Statement. The 'competition criteria' is a key part of that.

Virgin currently have 4924 seats per week to Indonesia, just under 20% of the allocated capacity. The Qantas Group have 20,076 seats. On those grounds alone, I find it hard to see how the commission could justify giving a lion share of the capacity to the Qantas Group, as it would further entrench their dominant position in the market. Even if they were to evenly split the additional 5000 seats, it would only increase VA's share of the capacity to 24%.

On the other hand, I can also see them prioritising the routes currently unserved by the applicants. I.e., PER-CGK for QF, WSI-DPS for JQ and PER-DPS for VA. There is a case to be made for Jakarta, given it would diversify Aus-Indo options beyond Bali.

 

[Saab34]

On the other hand, I can also see them prioritising the routes currently unserved by the applicants. I.e., PER-CGK for QF, WSI-DPS for JQ and PER-DPS for VA. There is a case to be made for Jakarta, given it would diversify Aus-Indo options beyond Bali.

Virgin will push the market share and Australian based crew message in its reply without a doubt like they did in the last attempt. Jetstar tried pushing the low cost carrier/market stimulator last time but they disagreed with that take.

I’d like to see more share to DPS/CGK on non JQ metal so I would be happy if Jetstar got nothing out of this.

 

[markis10]

H

Post in thread 'Updated Air Services agreement between Australia and Indonesia'

Yesterday at 4:23 PM

Personally I would hope VA get the lion share.

They would have a compelling case.

Both carriers will now need to address additional criteria under Section 9 of the IASC Policy Statement. The 'competition criteria' is a key part of that.

Virgin currently have 4924 seats per week to Indonesia, just under 20% of the allocated capacity. The Qantas Group have 20,076 seats. On those grounds alone, I find it hard to see how the commission could justify giving a lion share of the capacity to the Qantas Group, as it would further entrench their dominant position in the market. Even if...

• Harrison_133

• 

 

[eastwest101]

Virgin will push the market share and Australian based crew message in its reply without a doubt like they did in the last attempt. Jetstar tried pushing the low cost carrier/market stimulator last time but they disagreed with that take.

I’d like to see more share to DPS/CGK on non JQ metal so I would be happy if Jetstar got nothing out of this.

Yes it seems that way, but the Australian-based crew argument by VA is a bit of a furphy, as the new QF crew base in SIN is unlikely to be useful for QF for JQ Bali- Australia flying, and the NZ "Jitconnict" crew base would be unlikely to be that much cheaper in labour costs than the Australian crew base for most Australia to Bali flights?

Unless I'm missing some IR loophole, maybe?

It would seem either way - with either JQ QF or VA flights to Bali and possibly Jakarta that it would be Australian-based crew doing the operations of these flights anyway?

 

[jrfsp]

Yes it seems that way, but the Australian-based crew argument by VA is a bit of a furphy, as the new QF crew base in SIN is unlikely to be useful for QF for JQ Bali- Australia flying, and the NZ "Jitconnict" crew base would be unlikely to be that much cheaper in labour costs than the Australian crew base for most Australia to Bali flights?

Unless I'm missing some IR loophole, maybe?

It was in reference to the JQ Indonesian cabin crew who work most of the JQ DPS - rather than QF flying

 

[Harrison_133]

It was in reference to the JQ Indonesian cabin crew who work most of the JQ DPS - rather than QF flying

Apparently DPS is one of their biggest cabin crew bases now at around 600 staff, with plans for this to increase further.

Worth noting they do a lot more than the DPS flying. The DPS crew operate across pretty much JQ's entire international network

 

[eastwest101]

It was in reference to the JQ Indonesian cabin crew who work most of the JQ DPS - rather than QF flying

Ah yes of course.

 

[Saab34]

Apparently DPS is one of their biggest cabin crew bases now at around 600 staff, with plans for this to increase further.

Worth noting they do a lot more than the DPS flying. The DPS crew operate across pretty much JQ's entire international network

With QZ reducing its operations plenty of CC to poach to seems.

 

[muppet]

They would have a compelling case.

Both carriers will now need to address additional criteria under Section 9 of the IASC Policy Statement. The 'competition criteria' is a key part of that.

Virgin currently have 4924 seats per week to Indonesia, just under 20% of the allocated capacity. The Qantas Group have 20,076 seats. On those grounds alone, I find it hard to see how the commission could justify giving a lion share of the capacity to the Qantas Group, as it would further entrench their dominant position in the market. Even if they were to evenly split the additional 5000 seats, it would only increase VA's share of the capacity to 24%.

On the other hand, I can also see them prioritising the routes currently unserved by the applicants. I.e., PER-CGK for QF, WSI-DPS for JQ and PER-DPS for VA. There is a case to be made for Jakarta, given it would diversify Aus-Indo options beyond Bali.

Yeah agree with your final points. New routes surely must have some priority on just cramming more people into DPS!