Uncontained Engine Failure South West 737-700

[Melburnian1]

I asked this elsewhere but mannej directed me and others to this thread.

It's unstated yet by media as far as I can see and may come out in NTSB/other reports in time, but was the lady who sadly eventually died (prayers!) wearing her safety belt.

In such a situation, would doing that eliminate any chance of being partly sucked out as she allegedly was?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Terrible news

 

[milehighclub]

1)activation of O2 flow require a “pull down” of the mask. Is it possible to apply the mask without pulling it down?

Different aircraft work on different systems to provide oxygen during a decompression.

737s have a chemically generated oxygen system in each PSU. If you don't pull the mask, you won't pull the pin to start that process. Pulling a mask supplies oxygen to all masks in that PSU only and lasts about 12 minutes. The A330 works the same way, as did the 767.

The 787 has stored gaseous oxygen and works on a pulse system. You don't have to pull the mask. When you put it on and start breathing, the oxygen will start to flow to that mask only. It lasts 78 minutes.

The A380 also works on a gaseous system. Again you have to pull the mask to start the oxygen flow, but oxygen is supplied to that mask only.

 

[jb747]

In such a situation, would doing that eliminate any chance of being partly sucked out as she allegedly was?

Not really. If you can lean your head against the window, then at least part of you could get out. There was a incident in a DC-10 in 1979 in which a passenger was pushed through the window, seat belt notwithstanding.

 

[Quickstatus]

@milehighclub
Thanks
Do you recall the flow rate of O2 to the masks on the various aircraft

I take it that you mean put the mask on, without having activated it....In some cases, it is.

Does pulling on the mask (to activate O2 flow) lengthen the tubing?. I can imagine it’s possible that the tubing could be long enough without pulling it further that some might put the mask on and forget about the O2 activation part

(O2 concentrator work by removing nitrogen from the air)

 

[mannej]

Not really. If you can lean your head against the window, then at least part of you could get out. There was a incident in a DC-10 in 1979 in which a passenger was pushed through the window, seat belt notwithstanding.

This remind me of BA5390 with the failed windscreen.

 

[milehighclub]

Sorry, it doesn't mention the flow rate.

As for the 787, it is a pulse system, so it provides oxygen with each breath and will provide a longer pulse at higher altitudes and a shorter pulse at lower altitdues. This reduces the amount of oxygen required vs a gaseous system by concentrating pure oxygen at the start of inhalation.

 

[Melburnian1]

... There was a incident in a DC-10 in 1979 in which a passenger was pushed through the window, seat belt notwithstanding.

Terrific knowledge of history!

 

[Quickstatus]

Report from QF30

Such a simple thing as pulling on a mask to activate O2 flow can easily be forgotten in an emergency.

Important to remember there are O2 masks in toilets, galleys and I think spare O2 masks in every row.
An aviator should be able to confirm

Additionally at 10000feet even though it is not necessary for passengers to use supplementary O2, it is not unusual for cabin crew to be using portable O2 because exertion at such altitude can cause hypoxia because O2 consumption goes up.

Are there indicators on a O2 mask that O2 is flowing?

 

[milehighclub]

Important to remember there are O2 masks in toilets, galleys and I think spare O2 masks in every row.
An aviator should be able to confirm

Additionally at 10000feet even though it is not necessary for passengers to use supplementary O2, it is not unusual for cabin crew to be using portable O2 because exertion at such altitude can cause hypoxia because O2 consumption goes up.

Are there indicators on a O2 mask that O2 is flowing?

747/380/787/330:
First and Business have one extra mask for every row.
Premium and Economy have one extra mask for every alternate row. Bassinet rows also have a mask for each bassinet, in addition to any extra masks if it is that row.

737:
Every row has an extra mask.

On all aircraft except the 787, the masks have a green flow indicator which, go green, when there is oxygen flow. The 787 has a green LED in the panel above when oxygen is flowing to a mask.

 

[QF WP]

First time I have read the row number involved, thus she was seated in 17A:

The parts that flew out of the failing engine struck and shattered a window in row 17, causing depressurisation of the cabin that almost sucked the female passenger out of the plane.

Will be interesting to see the damage the blade caused and why the ring failed. NTSB Report will be keenly followed by many.

There is a picture here (NTSB_Newsroom (@NTSB_Newsroom) | Twitter) which clearly shows a blade is missing. The rest of the fan seems to be in good shape.

Agree that photo is very instructive. Quote from the NTSB thus far:

“There are 24 fan blades which help bring air into the engine, one of the fan blades was separated and missing ... this fan blade was broken right at the hub. The outside of the engine, the cowling that’s around the engine, was missing and a piece of that was found in this location (Bernville) about 60 miles (100km) northwest of here.

 

[Flying Fox]

Given what we have seen in the pics and the description of hull penetration etc -

1. Engine is written off?

2. Aircraft is written off?

 

[Flying Fox]

Pilot's haunting audio after plane engine explodes

PIC - Ms Shults was one of the first female fighter pilots in the US Navy and the first to fly an F-18. With the Navy not allowing women to fly in combat, Shults quit in 1993 and joined Southwest Airlines.

Great job! She flew F18s - COOL!!!

 

[QF WP]

Tammie Jo Schults, the pilot came back to speak to each of us personally. This is a true American Hero

She handled herself really well, as did the ATC controller from the short excerpt. Really want to hear more of the ATC exchange - over I go to YouTube to my favourite Channel subscription.

 

[Captain Halliday]

Full ATC audio from SWA1380:
Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 engine failure (courtesy LiveATC.net)

 

[QF WP]

One from YouTube, with subtitles:

Live Interview with a pax: (from 0:40) Matt Tranchin (he was in Row 17), very calm and a good interview. He says the deceased pax was in seat 14A.

 

[RooFlyer]

Listening to that audio, a few queries.

I would expect that in an emergency, the pilot (left hand side) would take control, and the RH side would handle comms. Pilot Shults was on the comms, was she not in the LH seat and controlling the aircraft?

She didn't mention the decompression at first when describing the nature of the emergency. Although that wasn't the major issue, wouldn't have given ATC a clearer idea of the status of the plane?

 

[QF WP]

You do hear the FO come in a couple of times to answer ATC calls, whilst unusual that they weren't doing the all, I've heard plenty of ATC calls via YouTube where it has been both pilots responding. I suppose we weren't there in the coughpit, knowing what was going on. Maybe she wanted to troubleshoot whilst the FO had the controls?

Given the warnings that would have been hitting their ACARS screen and the inability to have first hand vision of the engine, they would have been relying on any advice from the CSM/FA's about what they or the pax could see - plus we are assuming they were able to accurately assess and advise the problem. They generally aren't very aircraft aware, so it would have taken some time to get a number of corroborating calls from the back to know what might have happened. It's not like the FO was able to leave the coughpit to assess themselves (like QF32), the pilots were reliant on their sytems to "tell" them what was likely to have happened.

 

[Quickstatus]

Listening to that audio, a few queries.

I would expect that in an emergency, the pilot (left hand side) would take control, and the RH side would handle comms. Pilot Shults was on the comms, was she not in the LH seat and controlling the aircraft?

She didn't mention the decompression at first when describing the nature of the emergency. Although that wasn't the major issue, wouldn't have given ATC a clearer idea of the status of the plane?

IIRC, on QF30 in 2008, RH pilot was flying at the time and when autopilot disconnected due to damage from flying O2 cylinder continued flying the aircraft down to 10000feet.

LH Pilot (captain) was pilot monitoring but became pilot flying for approach and landing at MNL.

Although the pilot in WN1380 did not declare emergency, she said she was single engine failure and descending and looking for nearest airport so maybe that was all the information necessary for a emergency descent and divert. When a pilot says they are departing an assigned flight level with engine failure - that’s an abnormal event and focuses ATC onto the issue. ATC can’t do anything about the decompression.
16 minutes from event to landing from 32000 feet is pretty good

And even when they were notified about a decompression ATC just said they would sort that out later

 

[QF WP]

@Quickstatus, you do realise that @jb747 was the LH Pilot (captain) of QF30

She didn't mention the decompression at first when describing the nature of the emergency. Although that wasn't the major issue, wouldn't have given ATC a clearer idea of the status of the plane?

Advising ATC of the nature of emergency doesn't require them to advise of all issues known to them at the time, although I'm sure they knew about the decompression. It was sufficient to advise loss of one engine.

In the same way that the pilots didn't apparently issue either Pan Pan Pan or Mayday advices to ATC (nothing on the ATC audio that I heard). But once ATC were aware of the issue, they automatically talk with the pilots of the stricken aircraft first, then go to clear the airspace around them automatically (in this one, they slowed most down and only let one into land before WN1380).