UN committee supports right to return home for Australian Citizens

dajop

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Let alone mixing with other guests, ventilation, etc etc. I can't see this as a model that hotels would be interested in especially as Aussie tourism is picking up now. Hotel prices for business trips were low a month ago but they are rising rapidly now.


Ventilation is not an issue if there's almost no chance of someone having the virus in the first place! ;) I get back to the fact that in some states i was OK for people too self isolate at home or in hotels of their choice if they had been a contact of someone who tested positive. But test negative and come from a a low risk country overseas, you are still considered the devil incarnate!
 

Pushka

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Ventilation is not an issue if there's almost no chance of someone having the virus in the first place! ;) I get back to the fact that in some states i was OK for people too self isolate at home or in hotels of their choice if they had been a contact of someone who tested positive. But test negative and come from a a low risk country overseas, you are still considered the devil incarnate!
Nah. Don't take it personally. I feel like this Federal Govt dislikes anyone who dares fly out of Australia.
 

dajop

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Nah. Don't take it personally. I feel like this Federal Govt dislikes anyone who dares fly out of Australia.

Not going to. I don't even think it's the federal government, it's well 75% of the Australian population who are more than happy to keep others out of the country indefinitely.

Having said that, I'm happy to just suck it up (and in a fortunate position, both geographically and financially to be able to do so), and am planning for 3 more stints in HQ, June 2021, December 2021 and June 2022. I hope by December 2022 there will be other arrangements. As I am sure many AFF'ers would too.
 

MEL_Traveller

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In theory it is true that people can return, but practically that is not true - and there are many horror stories to show for this.

If you have no bumps in the road however, then, as you said, the cost of travel and HQ is simply prohibitive for some - this cost alone is $7k as a minimum and rising from there.

But there are other costs that people in Australia can't seem to understand, so let me highlight them. Many people have had their flights moved, or cancelled, and that means they need to spend more time at their origin. When someone has finalised their rent for example, and they then face a delay of one, two, three or sometimes even more delay - where are they going to stay? And because they're not renting, this often means a hotel or Airbnb at short notice. If it was just two weeks delay, this can mean anywhere from an extra $1,500 to $3,000. Europe and the UK are extremely expensive when it comes to accommodation.

I haven't even mentioned the fact that two weeks confined in a room is two weeks of time lost, no matter how you spin it. Not to mention the mental and health effects of being in a room for 14 days.

As I said before, if there can be something done for 1200 foreigners for a tennis tournament, I don't think anyone seriously can say we can't do something for fellow Australians in need. That is simply ridiculous. I'm not saying, nor have I ever said just open the borders freely, but there are other ways. One of the ways we can start to ease borders is the vaccination program. Yet, no one seems to care.

Let's break down a situation where someone in the UK may have finalised their lease and now be homeless.

Singapore airlines has flights LHR-ADL on 23, 24, 25 and 26 April for £950 (and again on the same days the week after). This is a same plane service where you must remain on board the aircraft during the transit in Singapore.

You could check in to the easyhotel Heathrow starting tonight for £24 a night. You must meet the UK government's covid requirements for hotel stays, of which being homeless, or 'not able to return to your main residence' are two.

The cost of the airfare is slightly more than the fed govt allowance, but the hotel is well within. Even if you add food and extras. The cost of hotel quarantine in Australia can be deferred.
 

hb13

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Let's break down a situation where someone in the UK may have finalised their lease and now be homeless.

Singapore airlines has flights LHR-ADL on 23, 24, 25 and 26 April for £950 (and again on the same days the week after). This is a same plane service where you must remain on board the aircraft during the transit in Singapore.

You could check in to the easyhotel Heathrow starting tonight for £24 a night. You must meet the UK government's covid requirements for hotel stays, of which being homeless, or 'not able to return to your main residence' are two.

The cost of the airfare is slightly more than the fed govt allowance, but the hotel is well within. Even if you add food and extras. The cost of hotel quarantine in Australia can be deferred.

Is that SQ flight business or economy? And assume the person gets knocked back from his flight multiple times, let's say for two weeks - what is the total cost, including hotel quarantine in Aus.

The hotel costs, which I just checked are 28 GBP a night - can you assume that to be the cost for every night there?

And can you add food and extras - do you know what that will run you in London, close to the airport?

What if you try and book and the hotel is full one, or two of the nights you are meant to be there?

You're assuming that the costs you have outlined are fixed costs and that can be done at any time, which is misleading and false.
 

dajop

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Is that SQ flight business or economy? And assume the person gets knocked back from his flight multiple times, let's say for two weeks - what is the total cost, including hotel quarantine in Aus.
Unless ADL reduces capacity due to an outbreak, I'd say of all the cities ADL bookings are actually likely to proceed (hence why they are selling them relatively cheaply). At 6 flights a week - 3 on SQ, 3 on QR, arrivals cap of 530 means 88 seats a flight, so at least half of these would be economy. I've noticed SQ tends to trickle availability onto (Australian) flights at the last minute, presumably due to people moving flights etc, but several months is very common for them to have no availability.

If travel were to the other cities, where seats per flight are lower then the chance of being knocked back when travelling in economy becomes much higher.
 

MEL_Traveller

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Is that SQ flight business or economy? And assume the person gets knocked back from his flight multiple times, let's say for two weeks - what is the total cost, including hotel quarantine in Aus.

The hotel costs, which I just checked are 28 GBP a night - can you assume that to be the cost for every night there?

And can you add food and extras - do you know what that will run you in London, close to the airport?

What if you try and book and the hotel is full one, or two of the nights you are meant to be there?

You're assuming that the costs you have outlined are fixed costs and that can be done at any time, which is misleading and false.

I checked for a full month at the easyhotel starting tonight, and the cost is the same - I guess because of the severe restrictions on who can stay (only essential travel, no leisure bookings).

The cost of hotel quarantine can be deferred, so yes it might be debt, but could be paid later.

I think anyone genuinely stranded at the moment would be happy to see they have options - perhaps options they didn't know about or hadn't considered?
 

suze2000

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and am planning for 3 more stints in HQ, June 2021, December 2021 and June 2022. I hope by December 2022 there will be other arrangements. As I am sure many AFF'ers would too.
How is it you are able to do this over again when others so desperate to come home cannot?
 

mviy

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If you can afford business/first tickets and have reasons deemed acceptable to leave (such as living overseas and just coming back for a visit) Australia you can keep on doing it. I don’t know why dajop can do it.
 

MEL_Traveller

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How is it you are able to do this over again when others so desperate to come home cannot?
If you can afford business/first tickets and have reasons deemed acceptable to leave (such as living overseas and just coming back for a visit) Australia you can keep on doing it. I don’t know why dajop can do it.

The rule applies to any non-resident... they don't have to give a reason to leave and don't need to apply for an exemption. That applies to Aussie citizens and also permanent residents.

I guess the reason for that rule was that any non-residents in Australia at the time of the border closures should be free to go home.

However, it also allows any Aussie or PR non-resident to come and go, subject only to HQ.
 

Pushka

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Nephew has also flown in and out several times. And again next month. For good. He has spent more time in France than Australia due to employment. The only time he got caught was when ADL had its November outbreak so he scrambled to Sydney instead. Work pays for business.
 

dajop

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How is it you are able to do this over again when others so desperate to come home cannot?

I've only done it so far once since HQ has been implemented (the other time was during the period when home quarantine was permitted). So this is the plan - no guarantees it will go ahead!

Worth nothing though when I came back in December, there was a guy on the plane about to enter quarantine in Sydney for the third time - some people are travelling back and forth quite regularly.

It easier when you don't have to connect - there is less risk for the airlines, and from Singapore there are in the order of 48 non-stop flights a week (almost 7 a day into Australia), and I have the flexibility to opportunistically travel when there's availability. I am planning a trip late May, there is a lot of availability on Scoot, and whilst it typically would be $200 or so for a one way flight on Scoot at the moment looking at $1100-1400 one way (noting return sector to SIN will be using Krisflyer miles, no problems with availability leaving Australia).

Singapore is probably the easiest to get back from. It has Scoot flights to MEL & PER, and they probably don't offer too many connections. Connecting SE Asia is a bit more difficult, but you can do it on Scoot. This is not ridiculously expensive for individuals/couples (but obviously would be more difficult for families). Japan is supposed to be not that difficult to get back from either.

US is supposedly easy to get back from - and people don't get bumped in general - but very expensive, as usually business class.

Europe and anywhere else requiring connections via a third country are more problematic - there is a lot more risk for airlines, and also it tends to be much more expensive.

India is becoming impossible - due to the various transit restrictions which is why QF are operating repatriation flights underwritten by the government (same with Europe).
 

dajop

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Nah. Don't take it personally. I feel like this Federal Govt dislikes anyone who dares fly out of Australia.

And I just remembered I found something that would put the risk (of accepting travellers from Singapore - into home or personal organised hotel quarantine - or allowing Australians to depart and travel to Singapore) into context .....

120.000 travellers (with pre-boarding testing) and no cases. There was one scare early on, but turned out to be a false positive:

 
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Myrna

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Surely they could do things like huge fines, extended time in hotel quarantine for those who do the wrong thing and in extreme cases confiscate passports for say a few years for those who do the wrong thing. Perhaps have it done as a bond paid on arrival to Australia (or even before the flight to Australia) that is refunded later only if the right thing is done.
👍 @mviy - I support all strong measures to make home quarantine an alternative for vaccinated travellers - such as tech devices to monitor movements (eg Singapore), a refundable bond equivalent to costs of hotel quarantine, removal / cancellation of passports and longer quaratine period if breaching quarantine rules.
We just want to go home. Hotel quarantine is a real issue for us - AC system is a potential covid corridor.
 

mviy

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The government has announced some restrictions for those coming back to Australia from high risk countries (which at the moment includes India, but also other countries similar but not necessarily the same as the UK's high risk list - we could have more countries on the list considering the elimination approach being taken here).

My hope is that eventually at some point they'll move to a 2 (or more) tier system where those who have only been in lower risk countries in the last 14 days and test negative can get home more easily, but that sadly seems still at least several months off.

In my view a tiered system is much less arbitrary than a blanket system where people coming from basically anywhere are treated the same for getting back regardless of how prevalent COVID is where they've been.
 

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