Travel Insurance

[LostRedditor]

I have a mess of an itinerary, flying to Norway and back on several airlines, a few different bookings, most with points and all taxes/fees paid with MasterCard. I've always just rested on having travel insurance by virtue of having paid with MC, but this time I'm traveling on reward seats for the first time, and with a baby.

I know little about travel insurance, if I have sufficient cover with MC, or how much I should pay for a separate one.
I'm visiting USA for a few days as a stopover on the way back, they do love some insurance over there, so I'm just looking for guidance. Qantas travel insurance recommended I spend $1800 on their policy

Do I need to fork out for a separate policy? Will it cover something MC won't?

Edit:
@moderators, apologies, I just realised there is a specific Travel Insurance sub forum

 

[RooFlyer]

I've never relied on CC insurance, always taken out a Travel Insurance policy. I used to use CoverMore, but they've got a bit term-crazy and expensive post Covid, so now I look at GO and NIB. I get mine through my Travel Agent - it doesn't cost any more than on-line for the likes of GO and NIB. My TA gets all the quotes, after I choose level of coverage (eg how much they will pay out in event of total cancellation) and excess (lower $ excess, higher premium), and then I choose & pay. Many insurers have levels of policy - from 'basic/essentials' through to 'comprehensive'. I always choose comprehensive.

All the policies I've seen treat USA as a special case. If you aren't going to USA, then you choose one of the 'non USA' ones and its cheaper. But I think you MUST have good insurance for travelling in the USA.

Any cruise needs to be specified and will bump the cost up. Obviously 'dangerous' sports as well - snowboarding, etc.

You can get Single Trip (usually max of 45 days) or Annual Multi Trip.

A good point to consider is that the earlier you buy the insurance before a trip, the more expensive it will be, because the risk (to them) of cancellation is higher. I just had a policy for a cruise in December priced now (say, $1,500 premium) and same thing priced as if it started in a month from now (say, $500).

I'm taking 3 o'seas trips of 10 to 40 days in the next 12 months and its going to be cheaper for me to buy 3 single trip policies than the annual multi, which really surprised me. I think its because of the Dec cruise, which is 1) expensive and 2) a long way off, so cancellation risk high.

Covid covers differ between Insurers & some you need to buy, say 3 weeks before departure to get coverage. That may be changing though.

Some policies treat pre-existing medical conditions (such as diabetes, high blood pressure, coronary heat disease etc) differently. If you want coverage for 'pre existing conditions', you have to take a medical questionnaire on-line and it'll decide if 1) they will cover these or not, and 2) if yes, what the extra premium will be. I've given up trying to get coverage for a couple of mine, as I always fail the questionnaire, but I was pleasantly surprised that NIB, both in their "allowed pre-existing conditions" list AND their questionnaire, was more relaxed, and I got coverage for extra premium, which I decided was worth it.

EDIT: Check if and what the policy will pay out if you travel on rewards/points seats & have to cancel or re-arrange. Most will.

EDIT II: I wouldn't touch Qantas or any other 'third party' policy. Buy it direct from the insurer so, if you need to claim, its direct. Direct communication most important in an emergency - CoverMore, NIB etc have specialists on call 24/7.

Finally, READ the Product Disclosure Statements! Its a pain, but you must know what you are paying for and what won't be paid for.

 

[LostRedditor]

I've never relied on CC insurance, always taken out a Travel Insurance policy. I used to use CoverMore, but they've got a bit term-crazy and expensive post Covid, so now I look at GO and NIB. I get mine through my Travel Agent - it doesn't cost any more than on-line for the likes of GO and NIB. My TA gets all the quotes, after I choose level of coverage (eg how much they will pay out in event of total cancellation) and excess (lower $ excess, higher premium), and then I choose & pay. Many insurers have levels of policy - from 'basic/essentials' through to 'comprehensive'. I always choose comprehensive.

All the policies I've seen treat USA as a special case. If you aren't going to USA, then you choose one of the 'non USA' ones and its cheaper. But I think you MUST have good insurance for travelling in the USA.

Any cruise needs to be specified and will bump the cost up. Obviously 'dangerous' sports as well - snowboarding, etc.

You can get Single Trip (usually max of 45 days) or Annual Multi Trip.

A good point to consider is that the earlier you buy the insurance before a trip, the more expensive it will be, because the risk (to them) of cancellation is higher. I just had a policy for a cruise in December priced now (say, $1,500 premium) and same thing priced as if it started in a month from now (say, $500).

I'm taking 3 o'seas trips of 10 to 40 days in the next 12 months and its going to be cheaper for me to buy 3 single trip policies than the annual multi, which really surprised me. I think its because of the Dec cruise, which is 1) expensive and 2) a long way off, so cancellation risk high.

Covid covers differ between Insurers & some you need to buy, say 3 weeks before departure to get coverage. That may be changing though.

Some policies treat pre-existing medical conditions (such as diabetes, high blood pressure, coronary heat disease etc) differently. If you want coverage for 'pre existing conditions', you have to take a medical questionnaire on-line and it'll decide if 1) they will cover these or not, and 2) if yes, what the extra premium will be. I've given up trying to get coverage for a couple of mine, as I always fail the questionnaire, but I was pleasantly surprised that NIB, both in their "allowed pre-existing conditions" list AND their questionnaire, was more relaxed, and I got coverage for extra premium, which I decided was worth it.

EDIT: Check if and what the policy will pay out if you travel on rewards/points seats & have to cancel or re-arrange. Most will.

EDIT II: I wouldn't touch Qantas or any other 'third party' policy. Buy it direct from the insurer so, if you need to claim, its direct. Direct communication most important in an emergency - CoverMore, NIB etc have specialists on call 24/7.

Finally, READ the Product Disclosure Statements! Its a pain, but you must know what you are paying for and what won't be paid for.

Thanks RooFlyer, very useful stuff! Will look into this more thoroughly in the morning

Buy it direct from the insurer so, if you need to claim, its direct. Direct communication most important in an emergency - CoverMore, NIB etc have specialists on call 24/7.

Technically nib is underwritten by Pacific International so more of a reseller but you're right, they have staff

 

[LostRedditor]

I've never considered using a Travel Agent before, will absolutely consider that for my next trip

 

[RooFlyer]

I've never considered using a Travel Agent before, will absolutely consider that for my next trip

And by a TA, I mean a 'bricks and mortar' one, not on-line or Flight Centre type

You may not really need a TA. I checked GO on-line against what my TA was quoting and the price was the same. Its just that my TA knows all my preferences, trip from-to, destinations etc and could get multiple quotes without me doing anything . If it doesn't cost me more, I'm happy for them to get a commission (and actually, in respect of international flights, I'm happy to pay them a fee now (as airlines have slashed commissions) because of the extra services they provide - but that's another thread.)

 

[Lynda2475]

Qantas insurance is provided by NIB and both are very expensive if your trip includes the USA. Go Insurance had great value and some of the best covid cover last year but prices have increased significantly since last year, i guess too many people claimed.

Id never rely on credit card insurance for USA but it is a good backup.

Still doing my own research on best policy for my OWA later this year and weather a worldwide annual polcy will be better value, in past has been cheaper to get 3 separate policies than one annual, as only on trip included USA.

 

[RooFlyer]

All my previous (pre Covid) RTW trips including USA were well accommodated by CoverMore and I don't recall balking (too much!) at the cost (and their claim/payout procedure was good on the 2 times I had to claim), but after the first round of quotes provided by my TA, I said no more CoverMore!

Oh, just remembered, I had a strange experience with GO last year when I lost my camera. Glad I chose NIB this time.

What does this sound like?

I'm having an experience with a Travel Insurance company which I'd like some opinions on. Its not a biggie, so I won't give the company's name - yet. Took out a policy for a 2 week domestic trip, incl cruise. Pretty standard T&Cs. Not my usual TI (CoverMore) as I wanted Covid cover and I'd...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[LostRedditor]

I had a look at nib Travel Insurance PDS. It states that

If you paid for any part of your trip using loyalty points or similar reward
points, the amount we will pay is calculated as follows:
1. the cost of the equivalent class airline ticket, based on the best available advance purchase airfare for the same season of the following year, less your financial contribution towards the airline ticket;
2. multiplied by the total amount of points lost;
3. divided by the total amount of points redeemed to obtain the airline ticket.


Example:
Equivalent class advance purchase airfare = $1,000
Points lost = 5,000
Points redeemed to obtain original ticket = 20,000
Claimable amount = $1,000 x (5,000/20,000) = $250

This seems unfavorable to me as I am booked using rewards, but there is no guarantee of rewards ticket being available. So the calculation might use the ridiculous non-reward points costs.
e.g. LAX-SYD two seats in J:
Equivalent class advance purchase airfare = $16,000
Points lost = 216,000
Points redeemed to obtain original ticket = 3,200,000
Claimable amount = $16,000 x (200,000/3.200,000) = $1080

So I would be able to claim $1080 on losing 216k points? Not to mention the cost to fly back? I must be misunderstanding something

 

[LostRedditor]

CoverMore looks much more appealing

c) the value of frequent flyer or similar flight reward
points, air miles, redeemable vouchers or similar
schemes lost by You following cancellation of the
services paid for with those points, if You cannot
recover Your loss in any other way. The amount We
will pay is calculated as follows:
(i) For frequent flyer or similar flight reward points, loyalty card points, air miles:
- The cost of an equivalent booking, based on the same advance booking period as Your original
booking. We will deduct any payment You made towards the booking and multiply it by the total number of points or air miles lost, divided by the total number of points or air miles used to make
the booking

 

[Happy Dude]

Id never rely on credit card insurance for USA but it is a good backup.

Interested to know this might be @Lynda2475? I have Amex Explorer and ANZ Plat cards and neither make a distinction for the USA. The coverage amounts are fine for me and the exclusions are pretty standard. I won't be taking out separate cover for any pre-existing conditions, so can't see why CC insurance wouldn't be reliable or worse off than a separate policy (barring differences for coverage amounts).

 

[Lynda2475]

Amex doesnt provide unlimited medical, whereas as most paid policies do. Given the ridiculous cost of medical care in USA id hate to be in a serious accident and then come home to bankruptcy

 

[Happy Dude]

I see. The ANZ card does (have unlimited medical cover), thankfully, so could use that.

Rental car cover is an odd one. ANZ is both better and worse than Amex. Amex is limited to 31 day rentals but covers the whole value of the car if it retails for less than $100k. ANZ just covers the LDW excess. However we've hired from US Car Hire for 54 days and their included silver level cover is better than both but has a LDW excess so we'll use the ANZ coverage for that. A bit like Dr Frankenstein might do if he needed insurance for his creation.

How do paid policies go in relation to personal liability? CC are not good if you're operating a vehicle and I do have concerns if I crash into someone or even injure someone in some other way, and I'm sued.

 

[Lynda2475]

I think you need to assess what you will be doing on each trip and the relative risk. I dont drive so car hire and driving cover irrelevant to me, and i like that on some policies you can remove this cover to save.

If im snorkelling, diving or sea kayaking i check coverage for this. So,e policies wont cover diving or skiing or moutain biking without nominating this pre departure or paying extra.

For US key thing for me is medical cover. If in latin america in addition to top medical i also want medical evacuation.

If popping over the NZ or UK only because Australia has reciprocal medical coverage, im ok with the credit card coverage.

I notice some on here swear by Southern Cross and their pricing is great but they only cover treatment in public hospitals which are probably places you want to avoid in Africa or Latin America oe ME and some parts of the US but would be fine in western Europe or NZ.

Also policy terms chnage all the time, so even if one was great before worth checking if anything changed before buying again.

 

[RooFlyer]

How do paid policies go in relation to personal liability? CC are not good if you're operating a vehicle and I do have concerns if I crash into someone or even injure someone in some other way, and I'm sued.

Just checked a few. Pers Liability is not covered under 'Rental Car' for CoverMore, NIB or GO. Also, none will cover rental cars unless you take out the rental company's comprehensive policy (which would include personal liability, or at least have that option). They just cover just the rental policy excess and return of car to depot if you can't do that (ie due to injury).

The policies do have a "Personal Liability" section, BUT exclude "liability arising out of the use or ownership by You of any aircraft, drone, firearm,
waterborne craft or mechanically propelled vehicle." (etc)

So I think you need to take out the pers liability option on the rental car policy.

 

[RooFlyer]

With CC insurance, to what extent do you have to purchase your trip through the CC to get cover?

Say if I bought half my flights with the 'insuring' CC and half with, say, cash (unlikely, but to make the point)

If I booked a cruise with the 'insuring' CC but flights with cash?

If I booked hotels with the 'insuring' CC but flights with cash?


If you make a claim, do you go through the CC people, or their underwriter?

 

[Lynda2475]

If you make a claim, do you go through the CC people, or their underwriter?

Noting with Qantas insurance you deal with NIB (not NIBs underwriter), with creditcard insurance and travel insurance sellers it can vary. Go Insurance is underwitten by Lloyd's of London, Amex by Chubb, lots of others by Tokyo Marine.

Need to also look at conditions for example i think its ahm/medibank private that only cover travel arrangements made on the day of policy purchase and later, not before. Covid coverage usually requires you to take policy 30-45 days in advance of departure.

 

[RooFlyer]

Need to also look at conditions for example i think its ahm/medibank private that only cover travel arrangements made on the day of policy purchase and later, not before. Covid coverage usually requires you to take policy 30-45 days in advance of departure.

Covid coverage seems to be changing if not rapidly, then in past 6-10 months. When I cruised the Kimberly last August, I took out GO and not CoverMore for the first time, almost solely on the fact that GO would cover COVID if you took the policy out only 14 days from departure, whereas CoverMore was 21 days, and I had left it late.

Just checked CoverMore again - still 21 days prior for some benefits and varies between 'Comprehensive cover' and 'Essentials care'

NIB - you can take out policy AFTER you've started travelling (which I didn't realise before) but there is a 72 hr waiting period for C19 benefits (that's interesting!!).NIB continues to seem the most flexible on health issues.

GO: Covid cover starts 7 days after policy purchase unless purchased within 1 day of trip booking.

 

[Happy Dude]

With CC insurance, to what extent do you have to purchase your trip through the CC to get cover?

Say if I bought half my flights with the 'insuring' CC and half with, say, cash (unlikely, but to make the point)

If I booked a cruise with the 'insuring' CC but flights with cash?

If I booked hotels with the 'insuring' CC but flights with cash?


If you make a claim, do you go through the CC people, or their underwriter?

@RooFlyer these things will vary from card to car. For eg, Amex Explorer requires purchase of the outbound leg of the trip with the card or FF points. ANZ Plat requires just $250 of the prepaid costs of the trip. The CC can confirm the policy and cover has been activated. I've not made a claim on CC insurance before but there are specific numbers to contact and procedures to follow in the event of hospitalisation (for eg).

I think the exclusion for liability when lawfully operating a vehicle is unreasonable, especially in a litigious society such as the USA. I'm investigating alternatives but if it looks like trouble I will probably just give a false name or do a runner

 

[Lynda2475]

@RooFlyer these things will vary from card to car. For eg, Amex Explorer requires purchase of the outbound leg of the trip with the card or FF points.

If using points you have to have paid the taxes/fees on your Amex.

I think the exclusion for liability when lawfully operating a vehicle is unreasonable, especially in a litigious society such as the USA. I'm investigating alternatives but if it looks like trouble I will probably just give a false name or do a runner

It vaires by state but in some US states now you wont be covered by insurance (even if purchased from the rental car company) unless you are driving on an interantional not an Aussie license. A fairly recent chnage and I believe Florida is one state enforcing this.

 

[Happy Dude]

If using points you have to have paid the taxes/fees on your Amex.



It vaires by state but in some US states now you wont be covered by insurance (even if purchased from the rental car company) unless you are driving on an interantional not an Aussie license. A fairly recent chnage, I believe Florida is one state enforcing this.

I wonder what would be the ruling if you used points to pay for taxes/fees though? What a minefield it is! Gotchas...... everywhere!