Travel Agent (Falsely) Claiming Zero Availability on QF

[RAM]

May not have been the commission, but some kind of VA incentive on offer which are regularly offered to travel agents.

I do not know why Q mgmt do it BUT (see my postings on extra 'taxes' loaded on to Q international flights to same destinations as Jetstar leaving within 30 minutes of each other where Q has everything outside the fare - commissions paid on fare not & taxes - so TA gets bigger commission selling non-Q flights - Q cutting off Q International nose for some reason) they do deliberately push traffic from Q to Jetstar and Virgin by deliberately 'managing' the cost of trips.

They even have stated (Feb 2012 media release on their web site) that fuel surcharges were increasing on every Q fligth but only some Jetstar flights. Even better the IATA data shows that the Jetstar planes on several routes (Syd-Hawaii) USE MORE FUEL per passenger than the Q plane on that route. Commission greater on Jetstar flight despite total cost being nearly $1,000 less. Seems Q mgmt want to really kill off Q International.

So for the TA there is a clear preference on nearly all routes for an anything but Q flight when they look at the commission they will earn (regardless of any other incentives).

If your parents had paid using a credit card then perhaps they have grounds for asking for it to be cancelled by the CC provider (only if alternative Q seats are still available though).

 

[Travel Guru]

If your parents had paid using a credit card then perhaps they have grounds for asking for it to be cancelled by the CC provider (only if alternative Q seats are still available though).

On what grounds do you think they "perhaps" have for asking the bank to reverse the charge?

Taking the actions of the TA out of the equation, they would have agreed to the fare, got what they paid for and in all likelihood signed an eftpos receipt, used their pin or signed a CCCF form so can't see how they could possibly have any chance of a bank agreeing to reverse the charge.

I'm not going to be commenting on the actions of the TA because I can't see any point when we haven't got all of the facts; yes VA pay commission (albeit a small amount) whereas QF pay none, maybe that was it, maybe it wasn't, it would be pure speculation on my part as to what happened which I why I won't comment.

TG

 

[RAM]

On what grounds do you think they "perhaps" have for asking the bank to reverse the charge?

Taking the actions of the TA out of the equation, they would have agreed to the fare, got what they paid for (after being misled y the 'expert' they relied upon) and in all likelihood signed an eftpos receipt (under false pretenses), used their pin or signed a CCCF form so can't see how they could possibly have any chance of a bank agreeing to reverse the charge.

I'm not going to be commenting on the actions of the TA because I can't see any point when we haven't got all of the facts; yes VA pay commission (albeit a small amount) whereas QF pay none (certain 'listed TAs' would disagree there as of 2011/12 Fin Year), maybe that was it, maybe it wasn't, it would be pure speculation on my part as to what happened which I why I won't comment.

TG

Yes you said it, if you ignore the what appears to be fraudulent or misleading and deceptive behaviour of TA then there is nothing wrong.

It is the behaviour of the TA that provides grounds for requesting the CC provider to cancel the transaction.

Most CC protect the user from fraud - on face value they were the target of false and misleading representations by the TA and relied on the oral contract with the TA as the 'expert' - Yes meets CC T&C for reporting and requesting transaction be cancelled (ahead of travel time so TA may face some cancellation fees but that is all).

Reporting TA to NSW Fair Trading (or whatever its current name is) and the Travel ombudsman (since 1/7/12) are also possible avenues of redress.

 

[shellthom]

I must have worked at a good store or maybe just in the days if old?? Jq and dj didn't pay commission on domestic flights. Dj would if booked as a package if you could get wholesale fare availability but qf paid 5% on everything... When booked through gds but gds pricing was the same as online... Hmm i would have thought that booking qf was the profitable thing but sounds like times have changed

 

[Travel Guru]

Yes you said it, if you ignore the what appears to be fraudulent or misleading and deceptive behaviour of TA then there is nothing wrong.

It is the behaviour of the TA that provides grounds for requesting the CC provider to cancel the transaction.

Most CC protect the user from fraud - on face value they were the target of false and misleading representations by the TA and relied on the oral contract with the TA as the 'expert' - Yes meets CC T&C for reporting and requesting transaction be cancelled (ahead of travel time so TA may face some cancellation fees but that is all).

Reporting TA to NSW Fair Trading (or whatever its current name is) and the Travel ombudsman (since 1/7/12) are also possible avenues of redress.

Please know I'm not standing up for the TA in question at all, but I think you'd be hard pressed to prove fraud in this case.

Aside from the fact we don't know exactly what happened so are making assumptions, it would very much come down to a matter 'he said, she said' as to what exactly led to them booking Virgin.

I think if it were me I'd put it down to a learning experience and perhaps even give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that while they might well be grossly incompetent at their job, they in all likelihood didn't deliberately "defraud" the client in question.

TG



PS. I wasn't talking about back end kick backs (which smaller operators would almost certainly see nothing from), I was talking about commission paid at the front end. Every back end kickback is negotiated by each individual agency group (FC etc).

 

[jenib]

Very interesting thread. I have had similar experiences at work with international trips. It goes like this....

I look up availability for (international) flights, find a good deal, get told by the TA that there is no availability, tell them that I can see the seats on the exact QF flights for a good price, am assured that they will look into it and then the TA is able to book them for the price specified.

I used to tell the TA (which has varied over the years as new contracts are entered) where I wanted to go and when and they would come back with suggestions.
Now I look it up myself and tell them exactly which flights I would prefer (and I look for the best deals available).

 

[Travel Guru]

Very interesting thread. I have had similar experiences at work with international trips. It goes like this....

I look up availability for (international) flights, find a good deal, get told by the TA that there is no availability, tell them that I can see the seats on the exact QF flights for a good price, am assured that they will look into it and then the TA is able to book them for the price specified.

I used to tell the TA (which has varied over the years as new contracts are entered) where I wanted to go and when and they would come back with suggestions.
Now I look it up myself and tell them exactly which flights I would prefer (and I look for the best deals available).

Question, where are you seeing this availability that you're telling the TA you can see? (ie. Expert Flyer, QF.com.au etc)

TG

 

[jenib]

Question, where are you seeing this availability that you're telling the TA you can see? (ie. Expert Flyer, QF.com.au etc)

TG

Hi Travel Guru

qf.com

 

[Travel Guru]

Hi Travel Guru

qf.com

Oh interesting, there shouldn't be much disparity between qf.com and what they're seeing in their GDS, if it was Expert Flyer it would somewhat explain it.

TG

 

[lvabarg]

I have found travel agents to be invaluable on many occasions. Our travel agent has rescued and re routed us on at least two occasions, while there were impending hurricanes and storms, on the east coast of america. Not to mention sorting other flights during the Iceland volcano debacle. Without their help, on a weekend we would have been stranded, without accommodation, as well as missed important meeting in Europe. They earn every penny of their commission.

on a slightly different tack, drewbles shows details of many flights from a site called EF. Is this something that only travel agents can see, or would anyone have access to this site, and if so, what is the link. Would be very useful to access this when booking future flights myself. Thanks

 

[cmon0005]

I've always wondered this but if you book through a TA, and your flights are cancelled or need rerouting, however its outside the TA opening hours, does that mean you're essentially stuck until your TA opens the next day? Or does airlines still look after you.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

I've always wondered this but if you book through a TA, and your flights are cancelled or need rerouting, however its outside the TA opening hours, does that mean you're essentially stuck until your TA opens the next day? Or does airlines still look after you.

The airline handles that if it is during travel or immediately before it. If there is advance notice then your TA will do it.

 

[Stoopidsteve]

I have found travel agents to be invaluable on many occasions. [Snip]

I agree they certainly have their uses: I planned a trip with 26 sectors, stitching together 6 tickets, flying twice round the world, in mixed booking classes (TR to come later in the year). I could have booked all 6 myself, but some of the connections are tight. TA spent a good few hours getting it all booked onto single itinerary (availability tough on some sectors) to help reduce stress of missed connections (eg getting from SJU to LAX via MIA-LGA-ORD in December to hook up with QF108).

drewbles shows details of many flights from a site called EF. [Snip]... what is the link.

Flight Availability | Upgrades | Frequent Flyer Information

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I've always wondered this but if you book through a TA, and your flights are cancelled or need rerouting, however its outside the TA opening hours, does that mean you're essentially stuck until your TA opens the next day? Or does airlines still look after you.

It depends what the issue is. If a travel agent has done a booking & forgotten to issue the ticket the airline won't be able to do anything as they are not holding any payment for that fare. In this case the pax would either have to buy a new ticket and seek reimbursement from whoever was paying for the ticket in the beginning.

Sometimes a booking may have been ticketed by cancelled in error however if there is a valid eticket in the pnr that is still live ie not voided or refunded then often the airline can reinstate the flights & revalidate the eticket against those flights.

Sometimes travel agents have after hours contact numbers so tickets can be issued/reissed if required. The FCI one is pretty useless as they can only perform limited functions as the call centre people don't have access to the credit card for the particular store booked through to they would tell pax to pay again then sort it out direct with the store when they open.

I believe Webjet's call centre is overseas & were able to issue a ticket when the pax booked the night before they were due to travel but turned up at the airport to find the ticket hadn't been issued.

 

[Travel Guru]

Sometimes travel agents have after hours contact numbers so tickets can be issued/reissed if required. The FCI one is pretty useless as they can only perform limited functions as the call centre people don't have access to the credit card for the particular store booked through to they would tell pax to pay again then sort it out direct with the store when they open.

I believe Webjet's call centre is overseas & were able to issue a ticket when the pax booked the night before they were due to travel but turned up at the airport to find the ticket hadn't been issued.

As I always say, 'Price is what you pay, Value is what you get'; if you deal with a decent Travel Advisor they'll give you their own mobile number to call 24/7 in case of emergencies...not that there's many of them around.

TG

 

[fersea]

Interesting thread.

My 2c for what it is worth.

Firstly if Paris2008 is in the customer service industry I think they might want to rethink their career. I have no time for people who come to forums and whinge how hardly done by their industry is. If you don't like it what are you doing to change your lot in life?

I have no idea if the original TA lied or not. But one thing I will say and I see this a lot on this forum is whether the OP is more worried about this than the actual travellers. Many people on here know all the tricks and perks and take it really seriously. I think a lot of people on here would never use a travel agent because they enjoy making the bookings themselves and then posting on here about their experiences. I know I am like that. If the OPs parents rarely fly and in their 80 odd years haven't flown a lot, I am not sure they would really know the difference between one airline over another. They won't have status on any but any decent customer service person on any airline would go out of their way to help two elderly people if necessary.

Hope you have a great Easter with them.

 

[Travel Guru]

Firstly if Paris2008 is in the customer service industry I think they might want to rethink their career. I have no time for people who come to forums and whinge how hardly done by their industry is. If you don't like it what are you doing to change your lot in life?

Very well said.

Whinging about what you make doesn't endear you to anyone it just annoys people.

I'm a TA (although I call myself an Advisor as I'm a million light years away from your standard TA, especially FC where I originally worked) and have been for over 10 years, yes most TA's make a fairly average salary, I would be in the top 1% of TA's in Australia if I had to hazard a guess on both income and lifestyle.

I don't say so to impress anyway, anyone who's met me from AFF knows I'm not at all like that, but say so merely to make the point that TA's like Paris need to take their blinders off, dream bigger, aim higher and they'll certainly find not all TA's work for "minimum wage".

Last year I took 7 weeks off to travel and experience new properties, destinations etc, I love what I do and my extremely loyal clients can see that.

If you're whinging about how little pay you're getting, as fersea said, go and do something else...it's a bit like the old adage, if everyone put their problems in the centre of a room we'd all quickly run back to grab our own, and i suspect if Paris went and tried something else where there are no perks such as discounted travel, famils etc, he/she would quickly run back to travel, pipe down about how hard they're working and enjoy their life a whole lot more.

TG

 

[jukebox333]

Interesting thread.

My 2c for what it is worth.

Firstly if Paris2008 is in the customer service industry I think they might want to rethink their career. I have no time for people who come to forums and whinge how hardly done by their industry is. If you don't like it what are you doing to change your lot in life?

I have no idea if the original TA lied or not. But one thing I will say and I see this a lot on this forum is whether the OP is more worried about this than the actual travellers. Many people on here know all the tricks and perks and take it really seriously. I think a lot of people on here would never use a travel agent because they enjoy making the bookings themselves and then posting on here about their experiences. I know I am like that. If the OPs parents rarely fly and in their 80 odd years haven't flown a lot, I am not sure they would really know the difference between one airline over another. They won't have status on any but any decent customer service person on any airline would go out of their way to help two elderly people if necessary.

Hope you have a great Easter with them.

Well said - and thanks very much, I'm sure we will!

Do they fly a lot? Not anymore - Dad is getting pretty fragile. You are correct, they are not gutted by the airline swap, and it wasnt as thought they were sold seats at 150% of the QF cost... truth be told, I'm not as hot under the collar about it as many posters here have been!

Honestly, I'm miffed at myself for not being more pro-active when I suggested they come in the first place by telling them to let me do it (but then, like many older people, they get into that "wanting to show independence by doing it themselves" mindset...). And yep, even a little miffed that there's a small contribution to the Jukebox Frequent Flyer Mileage Bank™ that won't be made... but mostly just miffed that at their point in life, they wont be able to do much more air travel, and have the right to fly whomever they choose, and so if they want to support QF, and say so, should be able to do so.

They are proud of their national airline - and yes, I would say I am, too - and if they chose to send their flight business to QF, the vendor selling that service should not be the ones to decide that they must fly with someone else.

FWIW I'm sure Virgin will look after them just fine, too.