To ticket or not to ticket...that is the question...

[Homer]

The saga continues. QF seems to be ignoring its own published Oneworld Explorer fare rules and instead has told my TA that they are using the IATA rules to refuse to ticket with the domestic sectors at the end. They have said that if I go directly SYD-CNS-SYD on my return, without stopping over, then they will ticket. However if I want to stopover then that is the end of my journey.

Any help would be very gratefully accepted at this point.

My TA is prepared to ticket through AA *except* that QF have insisted that my two AA sectors (LAX-SFO-LAX) must be changed to QF codeshare flights if I am to take QF107 LAX-JFK. If my TA changes these to QF codeshare flights then *according to my TA* AA will not be able to issue my tickets because my itinerary includes no AA sectors.

 

[Dave Noble]

The saga continues. QF seems to be ignoring its own published Oneworld Explorer fare rules and instead has told my TA that they are using the IATA rules to refuse to ticket with the domestic sectors at the end. They have said that if I go directly SYD-CNS-SYD on my return, without stopping over, then they will ticket. However if I want to stopover then that is the end of my journey.

Any help would be very gratefully accepted at this point.

My TA is prepared to ticket through AA *except* that QF have insisted that my two AA sectors (LAX-SFO-LAX) must be changed to QF codeshare flights if I am to take QF107 LAX-JFK. If my TA changes these to QF codeshare flights then *according to my TA* AA will not be able to issue my tickets because my itinerary includes no AA sectors.

I am failing to see how using the agent is saving effort atm

There is NO rule that would require you to use the QF codeshares on LAX-SFO-LAX

My 1st suggestion is to save yourself a lot of effort and just go to the AA ATW desk since you will be v unlikely to have these issues and just tell them the routing and they will ticket; if you insist on the extra work on trying to get the AMEX agent to issue it, then tell them to show you the fare rules that stipiulate the necessity to fly on the QF codeshare. Ypu may well have problems getting AMEX to issue on AA without using AA for your flight ex Oz which would mean that you could not use QF107 LAX-JFK since QF has its own private rule on use of QF107

AA ATW will happily issue you a ticket with a QF flight number ex OZ and so allow you on QF107

Dave

 

[Homer]

What is the number for the AA ATW ticket desk?

 

[simongr]

Umm if you ticket through AA what the heck has it got to do which flight number QF wants you to take? if you (or the TA) phones AA they should book you whatever flight numbers you want - if there is availability of course.

Sorry for the bwahahaha earlier - I just knew this was coming from QF - this is exactly what I faced when I tried to book through QF (And to a lesser extent CX) - the AA ATW desk did this in 7 mins.

I would be saying to you TA that you will call AA in the morning and book it yourself as it will be easier.

If you pm me the flight details I can check the D availability from expertflyer.

This is something I really resent QF for and passionately try to get everyone to know how bad they are at these tickets. I would never consider using them for a RTW booking and in my next role I will make sure this is in my contract!

EDIT

Dave got there first it seems - AA ATW desk +1 8002473247 - they are on Dallas time though (I think)

 

[Homer]

Umm if you ticket through AA what the heck has it got to do which flight number QF wants you to take? if

I was unclear. I meant, what is the telephone number for the AA ATW ticket desk?

 

[simongr]

SOrry - I posted my response after you posted yours and Dave posted his.

 

[Dave Noble]

What is the number for the AA ATW ticket desk?

+1 800 247 3247

It opens, iirc, at approx 22:00 EEDT and closes at around 11:00 EEDT

Give them the itinerary and they will give you the base fare; it will take approx 1 day for pricing department to come back with the taxes

Once the taxes are calculated then just call 1800 673 486 to pay; they will email you a CC authorisation form; fax back and they will issue the ticket

Dave

 

[Homer]

Thank you.

The only issue I will have is that, again according to my TA, if I try to have this ticketed myself the airline will be unable to do it because it is an "industry" booking; ie only the TA can ticket this particular itinerary. That means cancelling the itinerary and starting again and as there is no D class left on some of my flights this is a little risky.

My TA is trying one last thing with her manager. Then I'll make the decision and call tomorrow AM.

 

[Dave Noble]

Thank you.

The only issue I will have is that, again according to my TA, if I try to have this ticketed myself the airline will be unable to do it because it is an "industry" booking; ie only the TA can ticket this particular itinerary. That means cancelling the itinerary and starting again and as there is no D class left on some of my flights this is a little risky.

My TA is trying one last thing with her manager. Then I'll make the decision and call tomorrow AM.

The OWE is nothing special and can easily be ticketed by an agent - what is the itinerary and can check availability for rebooking

Dave

 

[simongr]

This is a definite frustration with TAs - if they don't want to do what you want or can't work how then it becomes "against the rules that I just made up".

It's a shame re D availability - I guess it will depend how tight your schedule is...

 

[Homer]

The TA has advised that according to QF the rule they are applying in this case to refuse to ticket with the domestic sectors is:

IATA Rule 2.8 Limitations on indirect travel
2.8.1.1 A fare component must not include more than
- one departure from its point of origin, or
- one arrival at its point of destination, or
- one stopover at any one intermediate ticketed point

The first part of this rule, viz "one departure from its point of origin" seems to be the key to QF's argument.

Has anyone had any experience with this particular QF roadblock?

 

[Homer]

The OWE is nothing special and can easily be ticketed by an agent - what is the itinerary and can check availability for rebooking

Dave

27 Oct: QF175 SYD-LAX
28 Oct: AA1928: LAX-SFO
30 Oct: AA1957: SFO-LAX
31 Oct: QF107: LAX-JFK
31 Oct: BA176: JFK-LHR
2 Nov: BA324: LHR-CDG
4 Nov: BA305: CDG-LHR
4 Nov: QF30: LHR-HKG
5 Nov: QF128: HKG-SYD
17 Nov: QF924: SYD-CNS
21 Nov: QF925: CNS-SYD

 

[Dave Noble]

The TA has advised that according to QF the rule they are applying in this case to refuse to ticket with the domestic sectors is:

IATA Rule 2.8 Limitations on indirect travel
2.8.1.1 A fare component must not include more than
- one departure from its point of origin, or
- one arrival at its point of destination, or
- one stopover at any one intermediate ticketed point

The first part of this rule, viz "one departure from its point of origin" seems to be the key to QF's argument.

Has anyone had any experience with this particular QF roadblock?

Rule 2.8.1.1 does not apply

Ask the agent whether you would be allowed 2 stopovers in LAX during the itinerary; the correct answer is yes since it is not an IATA fare construct. If it was, then the "only one stopover at any one intermediate point" rule would prohibit 2 stopovers at the same point on an OWE

Do you have any flexibility on your itinerary ex Australia?

Dave

 

[Homer]

Ask the agent whether you would be allowed 2 stopovers in LAX during the itinerary; the correct answer is yes since it is not an IATA fare construct.

Many thanks. I just spoke to the TA and she said "no", that I am not allowed two stopovers in LAX or anywhere else during my DONE4. She pointed out that I only have one stopover in LAX because the second one is actually a transit (< 24 hours).

Do you have any more "ammunition"? I actually love a good fight and I'm starting to enjoy this now...

 

[Dave Noble]

Many thanks. I just spoke to the TA and she said "no", that I am not allowed two stopovers in LAX or anywhere else during my DONE4. She pointed out that I only have one stopover in LAX because the second one is actually a transit (< 24 hours).

Do you have any more "ammunition"? I actually love a good fight and I'm starting to enjoy this now...

You are allowed 2 stopovers in a single location though - Time to get a decent TA

Dave

 

[Homer]

You are allowed 2 stopovers in a single location though - Time to get a decent TA

Dave

I really like this TA Dave. She wants to get this done. I just spoke to her and she acknowledged that multiple stopovers in a single location are allowed - her mistake - but her hands are still tied because Qantas Industry is refusing to ticket me.

She said that if I could find a PNR (booking reference) for a DONEx that was ticketed by QF in the last six months, that included domestic sectors at the end, then we would have the problem solved as she could show QF and that would be that. However I don't think I'm going to be able to find someone on this forum that has one of these ticketed by QF...

 

[Dave Noble]

I really like this TA Dave. She wants to get this done. I just spoke to her and she acknowledged that multiple stopovers in a single location are allowed - her mistake - but her hands are still tied because Qantas Industry is refusing to ticket me.

Her admission that 2 stopovers in 1 location is permitted proves that Rule 2.8.1.1 does not apply for an OWE since if one part of the rule is inapplicable , then the whole rule must be

Her hands are not tied. The agent is quite capable of issuing a ticket without reference to the airline if they want to , just that she wants the easy life of having QF do it rather than taking the onus of ticketing onto herself

Dave

 

[Homer]

Her admission that 2 stopovers in 1 location is permitted proves that Rule 2.8.1.1 does not apply for an OWE since if one part of the rule is inapplicable , then the whole rule must be

Her hands are not tied. The agent is quite capable of issuing a ticket without reference to the airline if they want to , just that she wants the easy life of having QF do it rather than taking the onus of ticketing onto herself

Dave

I tried explaining that but in her view if one part of 2.8.1.1 does not apply then that doesn't mean that other parts don't apply. I read enough contracts to know that that doesn't make any sense, but I wasn't able to convince her of that.

She said she can ticket herself but that now that QF has flagged an issue she is afraid of copping some sort of internal fine that airlines levy on TAs that make ticketing mistakes. So she won't ticket now without QF approval.

 

[Travel Guru]

Her admission that 2 stopovers in 1 location is permitted proves that Rule 2.8.1.1 does not apply for an OWE since if one part of the rule is inapplicable , then the whole rule must be

Her hands are not tied. The agent is quite capable of issuing a ticket without reference to the airline if they want to , just that she wants the easy life of having QF do it rather than taking the onus of ticketing onto herself

Dave

I assume from your comments you've previously worked as a TA Dave?

TG

 

[Keith009]

However I don't think I'm going to be able to find someone on this forum that has one of these ticketed by QF...

Paging NM.