Tips on Tipping

[harvyk]

If a place says we will sell you a hamburger for $8, then I expect to be walking out of there with a hamburger having paid exactly $8 and not one cent more. If the place says we will donate $1 for every hamburger sold, then provided I still walk out of there with a hamburger for no more than $8 I'm happy. It's when they offer a hamburger for $8, and then say plus an extra $1 for the donation which means it now effectively becomes a $9 hamburger that I have a problem with. Had you simply said it's a $9 hamburger at the start, then so be it. But to add on an extra like a charity donation after we came to an agreement on the price (aka $8) just feels a little dishonest...

On a side note, I now feel like getting a hamburger for dinner...

 

[robd]

If a place says we will sell you a hamburger for $8, then I expect to be walking out of there with a hamburger having paid exactly $8 and not one cent more. If the place says we will donate $1 for every hamburger sold, then provided I still walk out of there with a hamburger for no more than $8 I'm happy. It's when they offer a hamburger for $8, and then say plus an extra $1 for the donation which means it now effectively becomes a $9 hamburger that I have a problem with. Had you simply said it's a $9 hamburger at the start, then so be it. But to add on an extra like a charity donation after we came to an agreement on the price (aka $8) just feels a little dishonest...

On a side note, I now feel like getting a hamburger for dinner...

With the lot! Nom nom nom.

Is $8 enough for "the lot"?

 

[harvyk]

With the lot! Nom nom nom.

Is $8 enough for "the lot"?

Yes... Although I can think of one place (perhaps a 10 minute drive) where their burgers are more around the $20 mark, but gee they are worth it (pity about the nearly hour wait)...

 

[JohnK]

But the funny thing is that if they openly claim that they are donating so and so much from each patron / each bill in spite of an all inclusive price, that is a concession that that money is not part of the business profit anyway. For example, if your burger costs $8 and the menu says $1 of that will be donated to charity, that $1 is not profit. The real difference is whether or not there is a specific line item which denotes your money going to some charity.

On a similar note one of these weekends coming up Subway on the Sunshine Coast are donating $1 out of each sandwich to Act for Kids. That is coming out of their profit. I think that is a good idea.

 

[RooFlyer]

I guess why they don't is that there is no single national GST. There are various state and/or local taxes (or none at all depending on what state and county/city), that would make the whole thing a nightmare for retailers. Easy to implement if prices were just on shelves, but many products also have price tags (eg clothing). But in some scenarios it can be really annoying, at say a take away in NY where they list all the tax exclusive prices on a chalkboard ! Local deli's with chalkboard, I'd imagine don't have a problem with national variation in taxes, but it is just what everyone is used to. Good for practicing maths.

I suggest that in many / most cases is that they wish to display how much THEY are charging you. The extra? Blame the gov'mint. Plus they guy down the road isn't displaying the taxes, so I'm not going to seem to be more expensive.

 

[RooFlyer]

Right, so basically the abrasive part of the whole process is the fact that the charity donation is separated out from the main bill, i.e. it is not seen at the first point of making the transaction.

Whether or not the charity (or charities) being donated to align with your principles, desires or terms is almost irrelevant.

Like I said, you could have the same $38 bill presented to you with the extra $3 simply integrated into the prices of the items you purchased. The bill would not show any evidence of an additional line item for donating to a charity. However, the menu or the till could say, "$1.50 from every diner will be donated to ABC charity. Thank you for your support". You still can't dispute the bill because there's no explicit mention of the charity in the line item, even though you know $1.50 per person of what you paid will go to a charity which you may not support, or may not support in the method provided. Unless you would insist on payment that a reduction of $3 be made off your bill.

So, the point really is - with coincidence to the existence of this thread - the fact that it is not bundled is really the reason for the disagreement, not anything much to do with the charity.

I would hazard a guess that the charity donation is separated out as such at some places just for this purpose. There are people who will not want to donate for whatever reason, so it is easier to provide a line to remove the donation from the bill rather than the customer raise a grievance to have a $3 reduction / discount.

I think you are trying hard not to acknowledge the obvious issue of discontent which is restaurants etc that add items to your bill, outside the services that were ordered and delivered. Irrelevant whether a charity or a gratuity; if bundled in the bill or separated out. If I want to make a donation to a charity, or a gratuity for service, I will decide that and then how much; I should not have to reverse it if I don't agree. Sure, provide a line for a charitable donation below the total if you must, but don't dare fill it in for me.

 

[anat0l]

I think you are trying hard not to acknowledge the obvious issue of discontent which is restaurants etc that add items to your bill, outside the services that were ordered and delivered. Irrelevant whether a charity or a gratuity; if bundled in the bill or separated out. If I want to make a donation to a charity, or a gratuity for service, I will decide that and then how much; I should not have to reverse it if I don't agree. Sure, provide a line for a charitable donation below the total if you must, but don't dare fill it in for me.

Au contraire - the original argument was that someone really hated the idea that an extra charge was added to the bill with the line item reading, "charity". This then stemmed an argument that, "I want to donate to whom I want on my terms".

But it really just comes down to it's the fact that it is a separated charge, a separate line item. Far from not acknowledging, but let's not kid ourselves; the charity argument has little to do with requesting that a certain line item to be removed from the bill. Otherwise, as I said, if it really was about charities, then if you had a situation where you knew how much of your all-inclusive bill was being donated to charities, you would request from the restaurant to have that portion removed from the bill.

This argument is purely about all-inclusive pricing. It doesn't matter if it's charities, gratuities, tips, sales taxes or credit card surcharges.... people just don't like it when those additional items are added. It would've been interesting to see how perceptions might have been if it had not been mandated that GST in Australia must be shown inclusive in prices (i.e. so everywhere you went, you saw the base ex-GST price and then 10% GST is "added at the till").

This draws an interesting parallel to hotels surcharging for credit cards. Many here have said they would rather see overall prices increase by 1.5% (or what not even more) than have a 1.5% credit card surcharge on their final bill.

 

[harvyk]

But it really just comes down to it's the fact that it is a separated charge, a separate line item. Far from not acknowledging, but let's not kid ourselves; the charity argument has little to do with requesting that a certain line item to be removed from the bill. Otherwise, as I said, if it really was about charities, then if you had a situation where you knew how much of your all-inclusive bill was being donated to charities, you would request from the restaurant to have that portion removed from the bill.

No you couldn't. If I offer you a hamburger for $8, and then deliver that hamburger for $8 and tell you thank you a dollar from that sale has been donated to the XYZ charity, you couldn't ask for that $1 to be returned since I agreed to supply you with a hamburger for $8. What I do with that $8 is from that point on literally none of your business, I'm just telling you that $1 of that has gone to XYZ since I feel that might encourage you back.

It is very different to I agree to supply you a hamburger for $8, and then explaining to you that I am also going to force you to donate an additional amount on top of our previously agreed $8. Up to the first $8 is my money to do with as I please. Every cent beyond that is your money, and I can't force you do anything with it. I can certainly make suggestions, but I can't add it onto an invoice and pretend that it's simply the cost of doing business with me.

 

[harvyk]

This draws an interesting parallel to hotels surcharging for credit cards. Many here have said they would rather see overall prices increase by 1.5% (or what not even more) than have a 1.5% credit card surcharge on their final bill.

The interesting thing with Credit Cards (at least in this country) is that there must be a method to make payment for the advertised amount. You can not charge a credit card fee in addition to the list price if you only accept credit cards.

The method to pay without credit cards and thus without a surcharge does not have to be easy to access, but it must be possible for the average person on the street.

 

[blu]

"That's how a $20 club sandwich and Coke becomes $30+"

Hotel room service and the $30 hamburger.
A "service charge" includes the tip. But a tip is not included in a "room service charge" or the more commonly used "delivery fee" or "delivery charge."
I first read this some years ago:
Tips on tipping: How to avoid the $30 hamburger - USATODAY.com

 

[harvyk]

Hotel room service and the $30 hamburger.
A "service charge" includes the tip. But a tip is not included in a "room service charge" or the more commonly used "delivery fee" or "delivery charge."

I first read this some years ago:
Tips on tipping: How to avoid the $30 hamburger - USATODAY.com


And is it only in the US that you tip hotel housekeeping?

Interesting article, and why I firmly believe that if something is advertised as $18, then that's all you should pay, since it removes the confusion and doubt...

 

[RooFlyer]

Au contraire - the original argument was that someone really hated the idea that an extra charge was added to the bill with the line item reading, "charity". This then stemmed an argument that, "I want to donate to whom I want on my terms".

But it really just comes down to it's the fact that it is a separated charge, a separate line item. Far from not acknowledging, but let's not kid ourselves; the charity argument has little to do with requesting that a certain line item to be removed from the bill. Otherwise, as I said, if it really was about charities, then if you had a situation where you knew how much of your all-inclusive bill was being donated to charities, you would request from the restaurant to have that portion removed from the bill.

This argument is purely about all-inclusive pricing. It doesn't matter if it's charities, gratuities, tips, sales taxes or credit card surcharges.... people just don't like it when those additional items are added. It would've been interesting to see how perceptions might have been if it had not been mandated that GST in Australia must be shown inclusive in prices (i.e. so everywhere you went, you saw the base ex-GST price and then 10% GST is "added at the till").

This draws an interesting parallel to hotels surcharging for credit cards. Many here have said they would rather see overall prices increase by 1.5% (or what not even more) than have a 1.5% credit card surcharge on their final bill.

I still think you are being obtuse, but probably not deliberately so.

Lets spell it out.

A)
Menu says "Grilled sandwich.... $10"

Bill says: "Grilled sandwich, pay $10" - OK
Bill says: "Grilled sandwich, pay $10 (including a $1 donation to charity X)" - OK
Bill says "Grilled sandwich $11 (including $1 donation to charity X) - NOT OK
Bill says "Grilled sandwich $10, and you are welcome to add $__ as donation to charity X" - OK, but not preferred

For "donation to charity" you can substitute "tip" or "gratuity". Same thing.

B)
Menu says "Grilled sandwich.... $10; a $1 donation to charity will be added to your total"

Bill says: "Grilled sandwich, pay $10, plus $1 for charity, total $11" - OK, but I wouldn't have chosen to order.
Bill says: "Grilled sandwich, pay $11" - strictly OK, but marginal and again, I wouldn't have chosen to order.

For "donation to charity" you can substitute "tip" or "gratuity". Same thing.


Comparison with taxes , GST etc doesn't hold up. These are mandatory charges, therefore unavoidable. Anyone who has shopped in the USA or Canada knows the extreme aggravation of having pre tax charges on the stickers, and taxes only added at the till.

cc fees are only mandatory if I agree to pay by cc; there is an alternative to avoid this charge (pay by cash), and therefore scenario B) above applies. I am aware of the extra charge up front and can choose to pay, or not.

 

[RooFlyer]

I knew I always feel comfortable in Vancouver and Calgary:

Vancouver among Canada's worst tippers - British Columbia - CBC News

 

[Quickstatus]

When i book a supershuttle or like in the US there is always an optional clickbox in th online booking engine to include gratuity.

I never click this box because the driver will put his hand out whether I clicked the gratuity box or not. And you will look like a tight ar*e if you did not pay up even though you paid it in the booking. the other pax wont know that you did either.

 

[get me outta here]

Just looking at a menu in HNL and thinking about a booking and I see this statement and wonder if it means that it is on top of the 15-20% expected as there was no other mention of gratuity, otherwise if it's only 18% it seems reasonable but suspicious, :

An 18% gratuity is requested from all parties of eight or more​

 

[v8Statesman]

"Forced" tipping is common for group booking all through the USA. Some staff expect a cash tip on top as well. They best stay away from me if the do though!