Tips on Tipping

[harvyk]

A little OT but what is worst is when the restaurant adds a "charity donation" at the end of the bill!
I was at Dinner by Heston in London around a year ago and they added £1 or £2 at the end for some charity! Now one could probably get it removed if they wanted toat the end but was not worth the embarassment I felt at the time...

i may have subsequently seen it in Australia too...

There is a pretty simple response. "I have my chosen charities which I donate to, if you want to donate a part of your profits to a charity of your choosing then you are free to do so, however I did not agree to include a charitable donation as part of tonight's meal, nor was it made clear to me that a donation would be mandatory as part of tonight's dining experience."

 

[Flying mermaid]

How do you tip hotel cleaners? Do you take the money to the front desk? Add it when you settle the bill as you check out? Or do you leave it in the room? Do you leave a note with it, or leave it in some special place, or is any cash left lying around assumed to be a tip in the US?

We had a lot of fun tipping house keepers when we were in the USA in 2012 - unlike restaurant staff they don't seem to expect it as much although my research before I left had indicated it was normal. We tended to leave a note just saying "for housekeeping - thank-you" with the money on top. We received many notes back thanking us. I actually hate the whole tipping thing, mainly because I am still unsure when to do it and when not to, but I do feel that you should follow local customs and if I am happy to cover up when entering a mosque in Istanbul, then I should be happy to tip in a tipping country. One of my objections is the amount of small notes you need - waiters are Ok as you can generally add it on the bill and pay with a CC but it is all the other bits.

 

[Awesom Andy]

There is a pretty simple response. "I have my chosen charities which I donate to, if you want to donate a part of your profits to a charity of your choosing then you are free to do so, however I did not agree to include a charitable donation as part of tonight's meal, nor was it made clear to me that a donation would be mandatory as part of tonight's dining experience."

Keep in mind that, in Australia, donations more than $2 is tax deductible, so for most people, they're still better off pulling it from the restaurant and then donating the same amount under your name.

 

[robd]

If you're staying at a resort with a swim-up pool bar, how do you tip the server? Or when they organise the lounger and bring your drinks poolside? I don't take money down to the pool with the me.

 

[cove]

You add it on the account and it gets to your room account.

 

[robd]

You add it on the account and it gets to your room account.

Ah, yes. Doesn't feel the same as flinging someone cash though.

 

[JohnK]

A little OT but what is worst is when the restaurant adds a "charity donation" at the end of the bill!
I was at Dinner by Heston in London around a year ago and they added £1 or £2 at the end for some charity! Now one could probably get it removed if they wanted toat the end but was not worth the embarassment I felt at the time...

I would happily feel embarassed.

Just like the non-stop charity drives in the office. I don't carry any cash on me most times and I do not have their enthusiasm.

 

[RooFlyer]

A little OT but what is worst is when the restaurant adds a "charity donation" at the end of the bill!
I was at Dinner by Heston in London around a year ago and they added £1 or £2 at the end for some charity! Now one could probably get it removed if they wanted toat the end but was not worth the embarassment I felt at the time...

i may have subsequently seen it in Australia too...

I'm with the others. I'd take it off without hesitation.

 

[anat0l]

A little OT but what is worst is when the restaurant adds a "charity donation" at the end of the bill!
I was at Dinner by Heston in London around a year ago and they added £1 or £2 at the end for some charity! Now one could probably get it removed if they wanted toat the end but was not worth the embarassment I felt at the time...

i may have subsequently seen it in Australia too...

I think it's a little funny as if they had just given you the bill without separating out the charity donation or what not (rolled the quid or two into the final price), you would've paid it all and maybe blissfully been unaware that they reserve a couple of quid for a charity donation. Similarly, they could do this (bundle up the "donation" in the prices) and have a notice somewhere (at the till, in the menu, on the wall) saying "1 [or 2] pounds for every cover will be donated to ABC Charity". Again, you would've paid the same and not even contemplated insisting that your bill be reduced by the said one or two quid because you do not support ABC Charity.

So it really just comes down to the fact that it's not bundled into the price. Not that you don't necessarily support a charity. In earnest, I'm not saying your position is invalid. But I just think it's fascinating to analyse it as such.

I know that Grill'd in Australia have a "charity system" where after every purchase, they give you a bottle cap (or token) which you place in one of three jars. Each jar represents a charity (the three charities are randomly selected every month) - the jar with the most caps at the end of month receives a donation from Grill'd. I guess you could exercise your right not to support any of the three by not placing your token in any of the jars, or returning the token to the cashier. But unlikely you could ask for a reduction for the cost of your purchase.

I recently learned for some travel through South Korea (maybe all), there is an airfare tax payable which is entitled, "Republic of Korea International Passenger Service Charge, Departure Tax and Contribution to International Poverty Eradication". Apart from possibly being the longest name of a line-item airfare tax in existence......

 

[coles525]

Easy way to tell the difference between complaining about a donation, or accepting it as part of the bill is:

If you tally up your order and it ='s $35.00 (2 mains, 1 drink and chips!), but your bill includes a tip of $3.00, making what you actually owe $38, then you have a right to complain! You didn't eat there to make a charity donation oit of your own cash, or credit!

But, if it's done in the dame way as the Aussie grilled "charity token", it costs you nothing; as your bill wouldn't change from thw costs of your total order.

Understand?

If I care to make a donation (cash, credit), it will be to my terms.. No cold callers, street beggers (includes approved traffic collectors), or junk mail....

My choice of charity, with a taxman approved reciept!

 

[anat0l]

Easy way to tell the difference between complaining about a donation, or accepting it as part of the bill is:

If you tally up your order and it ='s $35.00 (2 mains, 1 drink and chips!), but your bill includes a tip of $3.00, making what you actually owe $38, then you have a right to complain! You didn't eat there to make a charity donation oit of your own cash, or credit!

But, if it's done in the dame way as the Aussie grilled "charity token", it costs you nothing; as your bill wouldn't change from thw costs of your total order.

Understand?

If I care to make a donation (cash, credit), it will be to my terms.. No cold callers, street beggers (includes approved traffic collectors), or junk mail....

My choice of charity, with a taxman approved reciept!

Right, so basically the abrasive part of the whole process is the fact that the charity donation is separated out from the main bill, i.e. it is not seen at the first point of making the transaction.

Whether or not the charity (or charities) being donated to align with your principles, desires or terms is almost irrelevant.

Like I said, you could have the same $38 bill presented to you with the extra $3 simply integrated into the prices of the items you purchased. The bill would not show any evidence of an additional line item for donating to a charity. However, the menu or the till could say, "$1.50 from every diner will be donated to ABC charity. Thank you for your support". You still can't dispute the bill because there's no explicit mention of the charity in the line item, even though you know $1.50 per person of what you paid will go to a charity which you may not support, or may not support in the method provided. Unless you would insist on payment that a reduction of $3 be made off your bill.

So, the point really is - with coincidence to the existence of this thread - the fact that it is not bundled is really the reason for the disagreement, not anything much to do with the charity.

I would hazard a guess that the charity donation is separated out as such at some places just for this purpose. There are people who will not want to donate for whatever reason, so it is easier to provide a line to remove the donation from the bill rather than the customer raise a grievance to have a $3 reduction / discount.

 

[drron]

I have no problem with a business that openly states part of their profits go to charity.The price you see is the price you pay.So whether I use that business or not is simply a decision whether that price is acceptable to me.And it doesn't matter what the charity is.It is their profit to do as they please.
However if it is an extra charge it is not coming out of the businesses profit.No matter what the charity I will decline.Happens on our cruise line and many SPG properties.
I will make my own decisions on charities.

 

[erkpod]

What I wish America would do is to make every price displayed as the after tax price.

 

[tuapekastar]

What I wish America would do is to make every price displayed as the after tax price.

Amen to that. I consistently get caught out by this and am about to query them when I remember the taxes.

 

[amaroo]

What I wish America would do is to make every price displayed as the after tax price.

+ 1

OT - Absolutely love Unit Pricing in the grocery game. Amazing how all the tricks of sizing, packaging, specials and bonuses are all exposed with the simple review of the unit price.

 

[TomVexille]

What I wish America would do is to make every price displayed as the after tax price.

Agreed. While sales tax is different depending on where you are (even from county to county), that locality should be able to compute that figure and price it correctly.

 

[dajop]

What I wish America would do is to make every price displayed as the after tax price.

I guess why they don't is that there is no single national GST. There are various state and/or local taxes (or none at all depending on what state and county/city), that would make the whole thing a nightmare for retailers. Easy to implement if prices were just on shelves, but many products also have price tags (eg clothing). But in some scenarios it can be really annoying, at say a take away in NY where they list all the tax exclusive prices on a chalkboard ! Local deli's with chalkboard, I'd imagine don't have a problem with national variation in taxes, but it is just what everyone is used to. Good for practicing maths.

 

[TomVexille]

I guess why they don't is that there is no single national GST. There are various state and/or local taxes (or none at all depending on what state and county/city), that would make the whole thing a nightmare for retailers. Easy to implement if prices were just on shelves, but many products also have price tags (eg clothing).

Probably the best reason. I used to drive to the next county over just to save 1.5%.

 

[anat0l]

I have no problem with a business that openly states part of their profits go to charity.The price you see is the price you pay.So whether I use that business or not is simply a decision whether that price is acceptable to me.And it doesn't matter what the charity is.It is their profit to do as they please.
However if it is an extra charge it is not coming out of the businesses profit....

But the funny thing is that if they openly claim that they are donating so and so much from each patron / each bill in spite of an all inclusive price, that is a concession that that money is not part of the business profit anyway. For example, if your burger costs $8 and the menu says $1 of that will be donated to charity, that $1 is not profit. The real difference is whether or not there is a specific line item which denotes your money going to some charity.

What I wish America would do is to make every price displayed as the after tax price.

Amen to that. I consistently get caught out by this and am about to query them when I remember the taxes.

I wish America would go metric.

On FT there's a couple of theads about all inclusive pricing - naturally it has stemmed mainly from air fares of which now in the USA are all-inclusive - with interesting arguments against simply showing all-in pricing. (Also large threads on FT arguing for and against tipping).

I'm for all-inclusive pricing mainly because of convenience and - at least after the introduction of the GST - being brought up in a society which has been fixated socially and legally on the idea.

I think some in the US believe that showing the headline price without taxes or tipping is intended to avoid "sticker shock"...which I think is a fallacy as if you're not going to be shocked at the first sight then you will be when you get the bill (the latter meaning of course you have usually little choice but to cough up).

Some arguers also put forth that not itemising all taxes etc. runs the risk of retailers to be dishonest by increasing prices and not making it clear whether the price increase was due to a merchant mark up or increase in necessary taxes (viz. the latter the retailer has no choice). The arguments on this line sometimes reduce to the magnitude of pennies. Apparently it is that significant.

One cheeky rebuke from some people is, "Those who hate tipping or separation of taxes are only those who failed maths in school."

 

[drron]

But the funny thing is that if they openly claim that they are donating so and so much from each patron / each bill in spite of an all inclusive price, that is a concession that that money is not part of the business profit anyway. For example, if your burger costs $8 and the menu says $1 of that will be donated to charity, that $1 is not profit. The real difference is whether or not there is a specific line item which denotes your money going to some charity.

I bet you that is on the books as profit and a tax deduction is claimed for the donation.
And if the burger place over the road has it's burgers priced at $8 then the place advertising charity donations just might by their stance entice some customers across the road.