Tipping problem in LAX TBIT Lounge [is back]

[dajop]

How does that compare to pay of say gate and checkin agents?

 

[blackcat20]

Jeez Tommy is going to be in the doghouse when he gets home tonight after posting exactly what Qantas pays their Cooks and Servers in LAX QF Lounges.

Good thing he wasnt the one that posted it then

If its public, fine, but I dont think QF needs to get on here and spell out how much they pay their staff.

And as Roo Flyer said, the issue is more about the dodgy ways that people are trying to encourage tips. I have no issue tipping in the US given low wages, but it isnt required in the QF lounges.

 

[timster]

If only you read through some of those 200 posts you may 'get a grip' on the thread topic better. We manage to do better than rumours here.

The thread isn't so much about tipping, but the 'scam' that operates from time to time at the QF lounge LAX. Where a tip is planted and "oops, cleaned away" in view of the next pax as an unsubtle hint to leave a tip. I've experienced it. That isn't USA culture by the way.

I DO tip where tips are the norm, however this practice is specifically banned by the management.

I have read this and previous threads on this topic. So much angst over a dollar or two.

You and others may call it a "scam". I would call it an attempt to educate (mostly) Australians - notorious tip avoiders in the USA - as to what is appropriate tipping in the US. I find when to tip and how much as difficult as the next Australian. I wish workers were paid better so that it wasn't necessary. But whether people like this culture or not is beside the point. We - or Qantas - don't have the right to impose our beliefs in another country if it is to the detriment of local low-wage workers. If you want to protest it, take it up with the appropriate authorities in the US.

My reference to 'rumour' clearly related to the lack of real evidence regarding how these workers are paid. That is still lacking. If Qantas is employing people in the US in roles that typically attract tips - unless they can unequivocally demonstrate that those people are paid extra to compensate for the lack of a tip - then to my mind the workers subtly demonstrating that a tip should be forthcoming is acceptable. A sign that a tip would be appreciated would be better -and avoid putting workers in this situation - but I suspect that Qantas would nix that.

Qantas are of course within their rights to refuse to provide such commercial information. But then they can't claim that the workers don't deserve tips. Nor then can we.

When the evidence that Qantas compensates workers for the lack of tips is forthcoming, I will change my opinion accordingly. If they can trot out labour authorities to say that Qantas management are within their rights to ban tipping, then I will be similarly persuaded, although unimpressed with such action. Until then, I am unmoved.

Again people, we're talking about a dollar or two of your money going to the people who clean a bathroom in an elite airline lounge for you.

 

[DC3]

Jeez Tommy is going to be in the doghouse when he gets home tonight after posting exactly what Qantas pays their Cooks and Servers in LAX QF Lounges.

Well, the cat's out of the bag now, so to speak.

 

[Cynicor]

Isn't the evidence posted just a couple of posts above? They pay pretty darn well for the USA, and definitely a liveable amount.

 

[opusman]

I would call it an attempt to educate (mostly) Australians - notorious tip avoiders in the USA - as to what is appropriate tipping in the US.

No, it's a sneaky and under-handed attempt to trick customers into leaving a tip, by making them think the previous patron had also left a tip.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

If I was confronted with this in the LAX lounge I would have no hesitation in telling the member of staff about an active discussion on social media detailing where, what and when this is happening and that people are on to the scam.

 

[RooFlyer]

<snip>
You and others may call it a "scam". I would call it an attempt to educate (mostly) Australians - notorious tip avoiders in the USA - as to what is appropriate tipping in the US. I find when to tip and how much as difficult as the next Australian. I wish workers were paid better so that it wasn't necessary. But whether people like this culture or not is beside the point. We - or Qantas - don't have the right to impose our beliefs in another country if it is to the detriment of local low-wage workers. If you want to protest it, take it up with the appropriate authorities in the US.
<snip>.

Well then, call my refusal to tip when confronted with the cleaning 'scam', my attempt to educate the staff in the showers that they should adhere to their workplace agreement, or seek employment elsewhere. Again, you refuse to take note of the evidence provided here that the workers are compensated for the 'no tipping' rule.

Hey, I'm not complaining (except against the scam) ... so won't be going to any authorities, but have you thought about that course yourself? You appear to think Qantas' arrangements are unfair.

<snip>
My reference to 'rumour' clearly related to the lack of real evidence regarding how these workers are paid. That is still lacking. If Qantas is employing people in the US in roles that typically attract tips - unless they can unequivocally demonstrate that those people are paid extra to compensate for the lack of a tip - then to my mind the workers subtly demonstrating that a tip should be forthcoming is acceptable. A sign that a tip would be appreciated would be better -and avoid putting workers in this situation - but I suspect that Qantas would nix that.
<snip>.

Just think for a second. Do you think Qantas are doing this on the quiet over there? Do you think the Unions at LAX are oblivious? Do you think the staff themselves are stupid? Its a pretty well known situation by now. You take the higher hourly rate and agree to no tips, or you ply your trade elsewhere.

By the way, you may or may not be aware that 'no tipping', while unusual, is not unique to the Qantas Lounges in the USA and Canada. Many resorts forbid guests from tipping staff.

Oh, and there's little subtle in the LAX lounge scam!

<snip>
Qantas are of course within their rights to refuse to provide such commercial information. But then they can't claim that the workers don't deserve tips. Nor then can we.

When the evidence that Qantas compensates workers for the lack of tips is forthcoming, I will change my opinion accordingly. If they can trot out labour authorities to say that Qantas management are within their rights to ban tipping, then I will be similarly persuaded, although unimpressed with such action. Until then, I am unmoved.

Who are you asking Qantas provide all this to? This forum? I suspect they will care less than most of us.

<snip>
Again people, we're talking about a dollar or two of your money going to the people who clean a bathroom in an elite airline lounge for you.

No, we are talking about a ruse to elicit tips, in contravention of the workplace contract of workers who are adequately paid for the work they do. Your lack of belief doesn't make it no so, sorry.

 

[Quickstatus]

$17 ph cook at QF lounge?. What would Neil Perry think?. Im amazed that people still think if they go to a famous restaurant that their dishes will be cooked by the celebrity chef. Their food may have sweat dripping from a poor cook under the pump and saliva of the celebrity chef while he is screaming and cursing at the poor cook

 

[tom747]

Sad situation in a supposed first world country!!!

 

[JohnPhelan]

When the evidence that Qantas compensates workers for the lack of tips is forthcoming, I will change my opinion accordingly. If they can trot out labour authorities to say that Qantas management are within their rights to ban tipping, then I will be similarly persuaded, although unimpressed with such action. Until then, I am unmoved.

Ohhh, you want UNIONS to say it's OK, and then you'll be fine with it???

You think the unions aren't already well aware of it? The reason the Teamsters aren't taking action against QF is because these staff are on a (comparatively) good deal!

And you seem to be oblivious to the actual problem - that the crooks perpetrating this scam are doing so in clear contravention of their employment conditions. They are also evading tax, because - unlike workers eligible for tips who have a deemed percentage of tip income taxed - these people don't have that extra tax levied because they have employment agreements which specifically state they are not eligible for tip income. But then perhaps honesty isn't something you rate highly.......

 

[esseeeayeenn]

If you can be pressured into leaving a tip by the mere sight of a tip apparently left by someone else then maybe you're too naive for international travel and it would be safer for you to stay home.

 

[hogie]

So I'm "happy" to confirm that the scam is continuing. Return flight to MEL Sunday Feb 5 saw a $5 note being picked up from the bathroom bench while being shown into the shower room.

So, where do I stand here? I really have no problem leaving some tip for some of the lowest paid workers in the US. I have a problem leaving a tip for workers in establishments where I pay top dollar (I'm looking you at you spa and massage places in particular). There are plenty of restaurants charging Australian prices and beyond, demanding a further 20% or more for the service (that's Oz numerical value, which is 30% more than on-shore at-home prices). This is where I'm having an issue.

But whatever - beware that this DOES happen - deal with it however you think appropriate.

 

[N860CR]

$17 ph cook at QF lounge?. What would Neil Perry think?. Im amazed that people still think if they go to a famous restaurant that their dishes will be cooked by the celebrity chef. Their food may have sweat dripping from a poor cook under the pump and saliva of the celebrity chef while he is screaming and cursing at the poor cook

Should see how much their regional pilots get paid... I bet they'd be lining up for one of these jobs!

 

[JohnK]

Thanks for that lovely read of tipping faux pas' in the US. It's amazing how firmly Americans believe that if we don't tip we shouldn't visit. Guess it's a good thing I have no plans to do so!

I wouldn't worry too much about what Americans think.

Tip when you want to tip, not when someone else wants you to tip.

And in my short experience in the USA they do not expect a tip from Australians and if you do give them a tip they are pleasantly surprised.

 

[tennisparadies]

No Way!! I have seen that before too but don't remember where! I also had something like that happen in a hotel room! Maybe just take the money next time before the cleaning person can take it

 

[Kangol]

Should see how much their regional pilots get paid... I bet they'd be lining up for one of these jobs!

You can't say that and not tell us what those pilots get...

 

[TomVexille]

You can't say that and not tell us what those pilots get...

IIRC $25-30k a year for new hires

 

[timster]

<redacted>

Need I reiterate ...

- real evidence that these particular workers are adequately compensated for the lack of tips - totally lacking
- real evidence that their employment conditions forbid tipping - totally lacking
- real evidence that QF are legally or ethically able to forbid tipping in the US - totally lacking
- real evidence that these workers are avoiding tax or doing anything whatsover illegal, immoral or fattening - totally lacking
- etc etc

On the other hand ...
- evidence of self-serving assumptions - at the expense of low wage workers - everywhere here
- evidence of taking rumour or QF assertions as fact - when such assertions are usually regarded here in the same light as those made by politicians and used car salesmen - everywhere here
- evidence of taking out a dislike for US tipping culture on low-wage workers - everywhere here
- evidence of begrudging low-wage workers $US1-2 for cleaning up after their s___ in an elite airline lounge - everywhere here
- evidence that several hundred posts on this non-issue is OTT - self-evident

As I clearly said, I don't expect QF to provide any of the above commercial information. As such, I do expect people not to jump to conclusions about what those commercial agreements are, especially when those most likely to lose out are those doing low-wage jobs that I don't see anywhere here jumping at.

My suggestion to diffuse this situation: that Qantas put up a sign "A small tip would be appreciated." Surely that would be a real "enhancement" ?

 

[Moody]

If the level of argument displayed here is what it takes to own someone in your mind, all I can say is that you must get owned pretty regularly.

.....

My suggestion to diffuse this situation: that Qantas put up a sign "A small tip would be appreciated." Surely that would be a real "enhancement" ?

I presume the smilie is to indicate that you are knowingly being <redacted>. Tipping is an elitist sport for the truly arrogant. I prefer NOT to treat others like scum who need to beg for a decent wage. Others apparently don't.