Tiger Cancels Flight

[FL360]

justinbrett,

Agreed however you can't have a contingency for everything and Tiger must surely understand the damage this type of publicity does to their already battered reputation. They don't even seem to be worried about trying to get an appropriate balance.

If you want contingency you have to fly with an airline with frequent flights for the destination you are travelling.

For example I intend to travel to London during the summer peak season, it is $2857 for 20-31 Jul. But I will use LCCs and travel Viva Macau to macau and switch to Oasis HK (you get free meals) in HKG to london instead and the total cost will be 750 + 1000, so I will save about 1157 AUD.. in that case I will definitely make sure I have at least 24 hours between flights...

To put things to the extreme you can also book another fully refundable flight to there, and if things do happen then at least you have an option whether to take that flight
or not, because I have travel insurance I will then call the insurance company and ask whether I can claim the cost for the replacement flight to aid with my decision making.

 

[Evan]

By comparison, QF009 was late last night (as per usual) to LHR and BA promptly put me on the next plane, made sure i was aware where the lounge was and have me 10 pounds voucher to get some food for morning tea or whatever should the lounge food not be what i was after.

All that happened was that i was delayed 4 hrs... seems reasonable treatment to me.

PS. i was traveling whY , Granted a OW sapphire but i dount that made much difference.... hmmm maybe.

E

 

[Yada Yada]

It can happen to any airline if the circumstances are such that they cannot quickly recover.

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com.../qf-passengers-stranded-12016.html#post155912

Original article link: Jet stuck in Karratha : thewest.com.au

 

[straitman]

It can happen to any airline if the circumstances are such that that cannot quickly recover.

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/travel-articles/qf-passengers-stranded-12016.html#post155912

Original article link: Jet stuck in Karratha : thewest.com.au

It's how the airline reacts to the problems that's in question here.

I'm not sure QF could actually do a lot in the Karratha instance.

 

[Yada Yada]

I'm not sure QF could actually do a lot in the Karratha instance.

Sorry, that was the point I was trying to make. For Tiger, they don't have enough resources in PER (yet). For Qantas, they don't enough resources in Karratha. So it can even happen to old legacy airlines with big fleets if the circumstances prevail.

 

[pauly7]

Sorry, that was the point I was trying to make. For Tiger, they don't have enough resources in PER (yet).

Is Tiger the only airline on that route then....? Was there no other way they could help their passengers?

I was flying SQ once and the airline went technical. SQ rebooked us onto other flights (competitors) and offered $ for the people willing to wait for the plane to be fixed / next flight. Everyone happy. Done.

You fly a LCC, thats what you get - as many other ppl have said. People cannot expect the same level of service for 1/4 of the price these days, its just unrealistic.

 

[oz_mark]

It's how the airline reacts to the problems that's in question here.

I'm not sure QF could actually do a lot in the Karratha instance.

These days, it can be hard enough to find accommodation in karratha booking a week ahead. I'd venture to say near on impossible to do it if a plane breaks down.

 

[JohnK]

I was flying SQ once and the airline went technical. SQ rebooked us onto other flights (competitors) and offered $ for the people willing to wait for the plane to be fixed / next flight. Everyone happy. Done.

Someone I know went to Perth for a wedding last week. A few days ago he was returning on QF566 (depart PER 16:15 arrive SYD 22:15) and went to PER airport a couple of hours early. He has no status what so ever with any airline and is a very infrequent flyer. While waiting to check-in a QF rep approached and mentioned that the flight has been cancelled as it will not make 22:00 curfew in SYD, due to arrive at 22:15, and offered him $255 to purchase a new ticket if he wanted, his words not mine, and a seat on the 00:15 flight.

I think the flight was overbooked and the QF rep was going around using any old excuse to get people denied boarding voluntarily. This person is adamant that QF is in the wrong for scheduling a flight to arrive after curfew in SYD but I told him that this flight arrives at the same time every day and I know a few flights that arrive after 22:00 curfew on a regular basis.

He was not aware that SYD has a curfew and maintains that the flight was cancelled. I am not so sure but as I do not have details for QF566 over the last week I cannot confirm. Can anyone guess what has happened here or have accurate flight details for this flight over the last week. Are there any cancellations? It appears to land in SYD after 22:00 everyday anyway so why was curfew mentioned in conversation? I am just curious.

Sorry for going OT slightly but the moral of the story is that QF where possible, and other mainline carriers, will go out of their way to help passengers. Whether this be for cancelled flights or denied boarding voluntarily.

 

[Evan]

Between 22:00 and 24:00 i have a feeling there is a restricted number of movments. Maybe QF would exceed the max number in these semi curfew hours.

But i suspect your right about a flight being over booked, if i had not other commitments i would have pushed a bit harder for a J seat if there was one and taken the deal hehehe

But then again not everybody knows what we know and would have access to see the number of seats for sale still.

E

 

[serfty]

I believe the SYD curfew is 22:30 ...

This flight has not been cancelled so far this year.

  Date   Reg Eqp       Sch Dep  Arr  Sch  Est  Act Delay 
01/01/08 ZXC 763 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2225 2213 2211   -14
02/01/08 ZXG 763 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2225 2245 2246    21
03/01/08 OJA 744 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2215 2239 2237    22
04/01/08 EBW 743 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2215 2230 2233    18
05/01/08 OGV 763 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2225 2222 2220    -5
06/01/08 OGE 763 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2225 2225 2224    -1
07/01/08 OGO 763 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2215 2235 2235    20
08/01/08 ZXG 763 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2225 2235 2244    19
09/01/08 OGJ 763 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2225 2230 2227     2
10/01/08 OJC 744 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2215 2222 2228    13
11/01/08 EBX 743 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2215 2231 2229    14
12/01/08 OGG 763 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2225 2229 2229     4
13/01/08 ZXB 763 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2225 2215 2216    -9
14/01/08 OGH 763 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2215 2220 2218     3
15/01/08 ZXC 763 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2225 2209 2209   -16
16/01/08 OGS 763 QF566 PER 1615 SYD 2225 2229 2228     3

 

[NM]

Sydney airport curfew is from 11pm through until 6am. The original Sydney Airport curfew was introduced in 1963, and in 1995 it was enacted in legislation. The only exceptions to the 11pm to 6am curfew are:

• small (less than 34,000kg) noise certificated propeller driven aircraft and low noise jets (mostly business and small freight jets)
• limited numbers of medium size freight jets meeting the most restrictive current noise emission standards, and
• international passenger jet arrivals (meeting the strictest noise standards) in the curfew shoulder period between 5am and 6am of no more than 24 movements per week (no more than five on any one day).

During the curfew period, aircraft must operate over Botany Bay; arrivals to the north on Runway 34L and
take-offs to the south on Runway 16R.

The curfew restrictions do not apply in cases of emergency, and in exceptional circumstances the Federal Minister for Transport and Regional Services may grant dispensations. The Act provides for fines of up to $550,000 for curfew breaches.

As an example, last night between 10pm and 11pm there were five QF domestic arrivals (including QF566 from PER at 22:28) and 5 JQ arrivals.

So QF566 is scheduled to arrive 45 mins before the curfew is imposed. If the departure of QF566 is delayed and/or very strong headwinds are expected, it is quite likely the flight would be cancelled rather than arrive in SYD after 23:00.

 

[Yada Yada]

The curfew at SYD is 23:00 through 06:00 hours (link).

QF566 is scheduled to land before curfew. I guess if it is delayed for more than 30 minutes leaving PER then it may run into difficulties unless the tailwinds are really good. Note that DJ434 dpearts PER daily also at 16:10 and is scheduled to arrive at SYD 22:15 hours.

A number of flights do have permission to arrive between 05:00 and 06:00 hours provided that they approach over Botany Bay.

 

[JohnK]

But i suspect your right about a flight being over booked, if i had not other commitments i would have pushed a bit harder for a J seat if there was one and taken the deal hehehe

I am guessing that the flight was totally overbooked in all classes otherwise why would QF over compensation. He was staying at his sisters so no problem to go back to her place until the later departure and anyway he got back $255. By the way this was a very expensive trip in the first place at well over $600 return with DJ on the way over and QF on the way back.

This flight has not been cancelled so far this year.

Thanks. That confirms my thought that QF was soliciting for people to accept voluntary denied boarding.

 

[simongr]

• small (less than 34,000kg) noise certificated propeller driven aircraft and low noise jets (mostly business and small freight jets)

I wonder if the lower noise A380 will fall into that list?

 

[oz_mark]

I wonder if the lower noise A380 will fall into that list?

I remember when an L1011 was a low noise plane

 

[simongr]

For the less antiquated amongst us oz_mark is referring to this aircraft The Lockeed Tristar

 

[Yada Yada]

For the less antiquated amongst us oz_mark is referring to this aircraft The Lockeed Tristar

I flew on these planes in the USA many moons ago. Mostly TWA, just like this one:

I think the seating config in Y was 2-5-2. :shock: The last flight I took on one was LAX-SAN (very short sector!) and it was almost empty.

 

[oz_mark]

I flew on these planes in the USA many moons ago. Mostly TWA, just like this one:

I think the seating config in Y was 2-5-2. :shock: The last flight I took on one was LAX-SAN (very short sector!) and it was almost empty.

I flew on the Cathay ones a few times. From memory, Eastern Airlines referred to them as the Whisperliner, due to its 'quietness'.

 

[straitman]

So QF566 is scheduled to arrive 45 mins before the curfew is imposed. If the departure of QF566 is delayed and/or very strong headwinds are expected, it is quite likely the flight would be cancelled rather than arrive in SYD after 23:00.

NM,

Just a very minor technical correction.

The winds from Perth are a jetstream* from west to east so rather than headwinds it is more a case of the jetstream* is not as strong as predicted.

*Jet streams are fast flowing, relatively narrow air currents found in the atmosphere around 11 kilometers (36,000 ft) above the surface of the Earth. They form at the boundaries of adjacent air masses with significant differences in temperature, such as of the polar region and the warmer air to the south. The jet stream is mainly found in the tropopause, at the transition between the troposphere (where temperature decreases with height) and the stratosphere (where temperature increases with height)[1].
The major jet streams are westerly winds (flowing west to east) in both the Northern Hemisphere and the Southern Hemisphere, although in the summer, easterly jets can form in tropical regions. The path of the jet typically has a meandering shape, and these meanders themselves propagate east, at lower speeds than that of the actual wind within the flow. The theory of Rossby waves provides the accepted explanation for propagation of the meanders

 

[NM]

NM,

Just a very minor technical correction.

The winds from Perth are a jetstream* from west to east so rather than headwinds it is more a case of the jetstream* is not as strong as predicted.

Fair point. How about "not as much of a boot up the backside as the jetstreams normally provide"? Certainly the flight time can vary considerably depending on the strength (or otherwise) of the jetstreamss on the day.