Thinking of switching from Qantas Ultimate to Explorer

[xavier2k3]

Hi all, first time poster - long time follower.

I've been a Qantas Ultimate holder since late 2018 and have an annual spend of about $100k through the card (have earned circa 630k points in total since having it). I'm originally from the UK and was previously an Emirates Skywards Silver Member so my idea was to get the card to be able to still fly Emirates when travelling to/from the UK at least once a year.

Obviously this year with airfares going up and Qantas now generally always being the most expensive, I've started looking elsewhere to fly, and have actually booked a one way with a different airline as it was significantly cheaper and there are very rarely any classic rewards flights. I don't normally do a lot of interstate travel in Aus, but I recently just used up the $450 travel credit/70k points on an interstate trip for 4 to bring down the costs. Most of my travel is normally international where I'd use some Qantas Points to offset some of the flight costs (for 2), but it's at a point now where it's still cheaper to fly elsewhere even after doing that.

I'm now wondering whether it's worth ditching the Ultimate and switching to an Explorer, for more flexibility with booking through different airlines using Membership points/$400 travel credit and the ability to also transfer to points to a different Airline (although that's unlikely given it's probably the worst use of points). I don't know exactly how much those Membership points work out using Points + Play through AMEX travel to be able to judge which makes it hard to guage.

I'm keen to hear what people think. I know some believe that AMEX Travel isn't amazing, but I just want to actually be rewarded for what I spend so I can save on Travel essentially.

Thanks in advance!

Side Note: I also have an Altitude Black Qantas Mastercard to maximise Qantas points earning which I'd look at moving, too.

 

[piratematerial]

There’s few rewards for loyalty in this game.

Better to cancel and wait out for the 18 month sign up bonus, and churn bank cards in the meantime. If you did 4 x bank cards per year you’d earn in the region of 250k-300k QFF/VFF points in sign up bonuses plus 50k-100k from annual spend.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

If you're spending that much money annually on your AmEx, there is really only one option AmEx Platinum. First you earn an uncapped 2.25 membership rewards points per $ spent at most places which can then be transferred at a two to one rate to many airline partners including Cathay, Emirates, Etihad, Malaysian, Singapore, Thai, Virgin Australia and Virgin Atlantic flying club. Now you are absolutely right that on paper that doesn't sound like such a generous transfer rate, certainly compared to AmEx Platinum cards issued elsewhere like the US or Canada. However, that "cost" is made up for with the flexibility of having these points you can transfer at will to whichever frequent flyer program has availability. For instance, if you see Emirates awards available through the Emirates site, you simply transfer the miles over and make the booking, simple as pie. Keep in mind too that each frequent flyer program has its own sweet spots. Virgin Atlantic is known for having some sweet spots for Trans-Atlantic (with Delta) and Trans-Pacific (with ANA) flights. Singapore releases the most business class saver award availability to their own frequent flyers and Virgin Australia has some good sweet spots too with partners including United and Qatar (the latter of which has even better availability with Virgin than with OneWorld partner Qantas).

But it's not the points that just matter, either. The big deal for holding a Platinum card is the comprehensive lounge network. Did you know if you fly Virgin Australia and hold a Platinum card you can get in to the Virgin lounge? What about if you fly Delta you can access their SkyClub lounges, something that not even a Diamond medallion will be able to do next year! Similarly if flying Lufthansa you can access the Lufthansa lounges! This also includes the exclusive Centurion lounges at SYD, MEL, LAX, SFO and elsewhere globally which amenity wise are somewhere between a Qantas international J lounge and an Emirates J lounge from my experience. They also include access to Plaza Premium and Priority Pass network lounges meaning you have access to a global lounge network well north of a 1,000 lounges, many of which can be access irrespective of what airline you are flying and what class of service.

You mention that you like to fly international in a premium cabin like Premium Economy or Business class. Are you aware that AmEx Platinum members have access to an exclusive discount for a number of leading airlines when booking their flight through AmEx travel via the International Airlines Program? These discounts range anywhere from 5% to 10% better than what you'd find on Google flights in my experience (although AmEx boasts discounts up to 20%). And in case you're wondering, yeah Emirates and Qantas are members of that program! Another nice thing about holding an AmEx charge card like the Platinum is you have access to AmEx offers that cover a wide range of airlines. For instance, I've got an AmEx offer right now on my Canadian Platinum where I get $200 off a ticket booked with American that costs $600 or more. Not bad!

Now look, I get it the annual fee is steep. $1450 certainly isn't something that most people can afford - heck my Canadian card's annual fee is less than half of that! But if you travel a lot (and by the sounds of it you may), then you can effectively make your money back by utilizing the other card benefits:

• $450 annual travel credit
• $400 annual dining credit ($200 domestically and $200 international)
• Complimentary Accor+ membership ($399 value) which gives you 1 free night at most Accor hotel properties in Asia-Pacific, discounts on dining (25%) at their restaurants and staying at their hotels (varies from 10% to as much as 50%) in Asia-Pacific.
• Marriott Gold status (i.e. late check out to 2 PM), Hilton Gold status (i.e. free breakfast at most Hiltons globally)

-RooFlyer88

 

[gwynne]

I've had Qantas ultimate since 2008. Probably about 80k spend per year at the moment. Very disappointed with the current Qantas situation.

I'm at 5000 odd LTC but can't see myself heading towards 14,000 anytime soon as I don't travel for work anymore.

And I have upwards of 800,000 points which I'd be looking to use across 2 family trips to US and Europe in next 4 years but I can't see myself finding availability for 4 seats anymore.

2 factors keeping me with this card.

1. I only pay $350/annum grandfathered rate.
2. I'm unlikely to earn points sign-up points on a PLatinum card am I?

I think the Platinum card is more likely to suit my needs going forward though (potentially retaining the Qantas card just for the $100 credit profit.) and using points plus pay on Amex Travel to try and buy some upgraded flights if I can't find availability on any airline partner programs.

I've had plenty of benefits down the years from QF points. 3x2 return business flights to US (2015 and 2018) and Europe (2016) and for just myself in premium economy in 2011 and business in 2013

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I've had Qantas ultimate since 2008. Probably about 80k spend per year at the moment. Very disappointed with the current Qantas situation.

Very healthy amount of spend you have. I reckon you could get more value out of your spend using some other card like the AmEx Platinum (see below).

I'm at 5000 odd LTC but can't see myself heading towards 14,000 anytime soon as I don't travel for work anymore.

It still might be worth heading for the 7000 lifetime status credit threshold for lifetime Silver which will net you business class check-in, priority seating and a couple of other perks when flying QF and other OneWorld member airlines.

And I have upwards of 800,000 points which I'd be looking to use across 2 family trips to US and Europe in next 4 years but I can't see myself finding availability for 4 seats anymore.

It's absolutely possible to use those points for trips to Europe and the US within the next 4 years. Just keep your eyes posted to the QF website to see when award availability appears. You may need to book out many months in advance, and you may need to book a non-obvious destination like ZRH instead of say LHR or FCO or LAX instead of ORD or DFW but it certainly is possible to find classic awards.

2 factors keeping me with this card.

1. I only pay $350/annum grandfathered rate.
2. I'm unlikely to earn points sign-up points on a PLatinum card am I?

Why wouldn't you be able to earn the sign-up bonus on the Platinum card? It's a completely different AmEx card than the Ultimate (Platinum is a charge card, Explorer is credit card). Simply apply (i.e. don't product change) to the card and that should be it. As for the QF Ultimate card you could product switch that into a card with either a low fee or no fee. That way you get to keep the credit history you built up over the past 14 years holding that card. Given you've been an AmEx customer for so long I suspect it would be an easy approval too. As mentioned above by me, there are many benefits to the Platinum card including the ability to earn Membership Rewards points which enables you to transfer those points over to close to a dozen frequent flyer programs including Virgin, Qantas and Singapore which can be a boon since you are guaranteed to find availability on at least one of those airlines frequent flyer programs for when you want to travel. On top of that there's global lounge access, a $450 travel credit, etc.

-RooFlyer88

 

[levelnine]

Why wouldn't you be able to earn the sign-up bonus on the Platinum card? It's a completely different AmEx card than the Ultimate (Platinum is a charge card, Explorer is credit card). Simply apply (i.e. don't product change) to the card and that should be it.

You're incorrect on this point.

To attain a sign up bonus on an Amex card in Australia, you must have held no Amex card for the previous 18 months.

I'd also note your point about Aeroplan is a bit misleading — Aeroplan is not a transfer partner of Amex Australia.

gwynne, why don't you apply for a credit card with another bank (eg St George, ANZ, NAB) that has a flexible points currency and where you would be eligible for a sign-up bonus? There are many great options out there.

If that works, you can keep the Amex Ultimate for Qantas points and the cheap travel credit while focus your spend/earn elsewhere.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

To attain a sign up bonus on an Amex card in Australia, you must have held no Amex card for the previous 18 months.

Well that stinks! I would however be curious if they could call up AmEx and see if there is a transfer offer for moving from the Ultimate card over to the Platinum card. In my case, I was offered 80,000 membership rewards points for upgrading my Gold card to the Platinum (I understand it's Canada so may be different but wouldn't hurt to try, I suppose)

I'd also note your point about Aeroplan is a bit misleading — Aeroplan is not a transfer partner of Amex Australia.

You're absolutely correct about Aeroplan not being a transfer partner of AmEx AU, but I didn't bring up Aeroplan on my post. In any event, I suspect you would tend to agree that Singapore tends to have better award availability to Asia and Europe than QFF and considering that membership rewards points are one type of currency that provides a direct transfer to SQ miles at a decent rate, might be of interest to the OP.

gwynne, why don't you apply for a credit card with another bank (eg St George, ANZ, NAB) that has a flexible points currency and where you would be eligible for a sign-up bonus? There are many great options out there.

That's also a good idea, particularly if AmEx is unwilling or unable to provide a competitive sign up offer. What I should point out though is that different cards transfer over to different frequent flyer programs at different rates:


In addition, you also should consider the other benefits attached to a card. Spending a little more for lounge access if you and your mates travel regularly may very well be worth while.

If that works, you can keep the Amex Ultimate for Qantas points and the cheap travel credit while focus your spend/earn elsewhere.

Very good point. If the annual fee is $350 and you're using the $450 annual travel credit for QF then this is what I would call a no-brainer. There are many credit cards I hold with an annual fee simply because the benefits alone outweigh the costs.

 

[levelnine]

You're absolutely correct about Aeroplan not being a transfer partner of AmEx AU, but I didn't bring up Aeroplan on my post.

My apologies. I thought I saw you talking about a recent redemption with Aeroplan as one of the benefits, but that must have been another post.

And yes, Amex may give gwynne an upgrade bonus of going from the Ultimate to another card, though it is unlikely to be as generous as the sign-up bonus for a new card. Definitely worth calling up Amex and asking to see what's on offer.

 

[xavier2k3]

If you're spending that much money annually on your AmEx, there is really only one option AmEx Platinum. First you earn an uncapped 2.25 membership rewards points per $ spent at most places which can then be transferred at a two to one rate to many airline partners including Cathay, Emirates, Etihad, Malaysian, Singapore, Thai, Virgin Australia and Virgin Atlantic flying club. Now you are absolutely right that on paper that doesn't sound like such a generous transfer rate, certainly compared to AmEx Platinum cards issued elsewhere like the US or Canada. However, that "cost" is made up for with the flexibility of having these points you can transfer at will to whichever frequent flyer program has availability. For instance, if you see Emirates awards available through the Emirates site, you simply transfer the miles over and make the booking, simple as pie. Keep in mind too that each frequent flyer program has its own sweet spots. Virgin Atlantic is known for having some sweet spots for Trans-Atlantic (with Delta) and Trans-Pacific (with ANA) flights. Singapore releases the most business class saver award availability to their own frequent flyers and Virgin Australia has some good sweet spots too with partners including United and Qatar (the latter of which has even better availability with Virgin than with OneWorld partner Qantas).

But it's not the points that just matter, either. The big deal for holding a Platinum card is the comprehensive lounge network. Did you know if you fly Virgin Australia and hold a Platinum card you can get in to the Virgin lounge? What about if you fly Delta you can access their SkyClub lounges, something that not even a Diamond medallion will be able to do next year! Similarly if flying Lufthansa you can access the Lufthansa lounges! This also includes the exclusive Centurion lounges at SYD, MEL, LAX, SFO and elsewhere globally which amenity wise are somewhere between a Qantas international J lounge and an Emirates J lounge from my experience. They also include access to Plaza Premium and Priority Pass network lounges meaning you have access to a global lounge network well north of a 1,000 lounges, many of which can be access irrespective of what airline you are flying and what class of service.

You mention that you like to fly international in a premium cabin like Premium Economy or Business class. Are you aware that AmEx Platinum members have access to an exclusive discount for a number of leading airlines when booking their flight through AmEx travel via the International Airlines Program? These discounts range anywhere from 5% to 10% better than what you'd find on Google flights in my experience (although AmEx boasts discounts up to 20%). And in case you're wondering, yeah Emirates and Qantas are members of that program! Another nice thing about holding an AmEx charge card like the Platinum is you have access to AmEx offers that cover a wide range of airlines. For instance, I've got an AmEx offer right now on my Canadian Platinum where I get $200 off a ticket booked with American that costs $600 or more. Not bad!

Now look, I get it the annual fee is steep. $1450 certainly isn't something that most people can afford - heck my Canadian card's annual fee is less than half of that! But if you travel a lot (and by the sounds of it you may), then you can effectively make your money back by utilizing the other card benefits:

• $450 annual travel credit
• $400 annual dining credit ($200 domestically and $200 international)
• Complimentary Accor+ membership ($399 value) which gives you 1 free night at most Accor hotel properties in Asia-Pacific, discounts on dining (25%) at their restaurants and staying at their hotels (varies from 10% to as much as 50%) in Asia-Pacific.
• Marriott Gold status (i.e. late check out to 2 PM), Hilton Gold status (i.e. free breakfast at most Hiltons globally)

-RooFlyer88

Thanks very much for your detailed reply. You are totally right about the Platinum one being the best choice, but it's very difficult to justify the $1450 per year but when you break it down like you have, it seems a tad more plausible, seeing as the $950 on travel/dining I would spend anyway. However the Accor+ membership is probably not as useful + the Marriott stuff. That's why the Explorer seemed like a good potential option.

I'm not too fussed about flying premium economy/business unless I get a good deal but the International Travel Program seems interesting. I'll have to check that out.

What sort of value do you get with points plus pay with AMEX Travel, do you know?

 

[exceladdict]

Hi all, first time poster - long time follower.

I've been a Qantas Ultimate holder since late 2018 and have an annual spend of about $100k through the card (have earned circa 630k points in total since having it). I'm originally from the UK and was previously an Emirates Skywards Silver Member so my idea was to get the card to be able to still fly Emirates when travelling to/from the UK at least once a year.

Obviously this year with airfares going up and Qantas now generally always being the most expensive, I've started looking elsewhere to fly, and have actually booked a one way with a different airline as it was significantly cheaper and there are very rarely any classic rewards flights. I don't normally do a lot of interstate travel in Aus, but I recently just used up the $450 travel credit/70k points on an interstate trip for 4 to bring down the costs. Most of my travel is normally international where I'd use some Qantas Points to offset some of the flight costs (for 2), but it's at a point now where it's still cheaper to fly elsewhere even after doing that.

I'm now wondering whether it's worth ditching the Ultimate and switching to an Explorer, for more flexibility with booking through different airlines using Membership points/$400 travel credit and the ability to also transfer to points to a different Airline (although that's unlikely given it's probably the worst use of points). I don't know exactly how much those Membership points work out using Points + Play through AMEX travel to be able to judge which makes it hard to guage.

I'm keen to hear what people think. I know some believe that AMEX Travel isn't amazing, but I just want to actually be rewarded for what I spend so I can save on Travel essentially.

Thanks in advance!

Side Note: I also have an Altitude Black Qantas Mastercard to maximise Qantas points earning which I'd look at moving, too.

I love the QFU card - Mrs Excel and I have both held it a number of times but are currently sitting out the 18 month period.

I'd argue one of the best uses of QF points these days is domestic J redemptions (I'm based in PER so it makes a difference on the long(er) flights). Without those being useful to you though, I'd probably be looking at another currency, as others have suggested. Or, at least, rotating through cards to some extent to earn sign up bonuses while you sit out the amex period to earn the bonus on signing up again.

But, one thing to note is many non-amex banks have monthly or annual points caps and all (to my knowledge) cap the earn rate after a certain point. So it may be worth running the sums, given your hefty annual spend, to see whether keeping the amex open is a better option.

Lastly, if that $100k is business spend, perhaps the card's annual fee could be a business expense? Or maybe the Amex business cards could be an option.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I'd argue one of the best uses of QF points these days is domestic J redemptions (I'm based in PER so it makes a difference on the long(er) flights). Without those being useful to you though, I'd probably be looking at another currency, as others have suggested. Or, at least, rotating through cards to some extent to earn sign up bonuses while you sit out the amex period to earn the bonus on signing up again.

Domestic J redemptions can be a particularly good use of points, I found. I should also point out that upgrades eke out the biggest bang for buck, especially if you are on a cheap red e-deal. For instance, there have been a number of times where I've booked $99 fares between SYD and MEL on the A330 with U availability showing meaning I could request and get an upgrade into J at booking. This has the benefit of saving roughly 8000 points, along with the ability to earn points and status credits on that base red e-deal fare. In addition since you have to pay taxes & fees on a classic award booking anyway, in reality you all you are paying for is the fare component which often amounts to a couple of bucks here or there.

All of that said, international awards can be a great deal if you can find the availability. What's key there is being creative with the routings. For instance, you may not be able to find a J award from say SYD to LHR, but you might be able to book it as a multi-city with a stop over in SIN where there might be award availability the following day on BA or QF. It's not for the faint of heart these bookings but if you invest the time, you will inevitably find the award.