The rights of the tall

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ozbeachbabe

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So if there were more 'tall' passenger than there are exit row seats, should the airline deny the passenger carriage?

That's a bit harsh, do you mean perhaps bump them out of the exit row seat to a normal seat?

Trouble is there will be people who think they own the exit row seat & you'll have a case of seat rage on your hands before you know it. I've seen pax asking for an exit row at the airport but at the same time being told if someone else comes along who's taller than them they'll be moved out of it.
 

MEL_Traveller

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So if there were more 'tall' passenger than there are exit row seats, should the airline deny the passenger carriage?

no... just the same as passengers with bassinets... first come first served.


That's a bit harsh, do you mean perhaps bump them out of the exit row seat to a normal seat?

Trouble is there will be people who think they own the exit row seat & you'll have a case of seat rage on your hands before you know it. I've seen pax asking for an exit row at the airport but at the same time being told if someone else comes along who's taller than them they'll be moved out of it.

exactly! re passengers being told they could be moved... many years ago as a plat I was taking to customer care about an issue and they asked what they could do to make things right... I said I needed nothing really, but that my sister was flying to London in a week and could they assign her a good seat? they said sure and placed her in an exit.

at checkin the agent said ... but you're only short, there really are people that could use this seat more than you...

exit rows seats were free, and could be obtained if you got there early enough... now qf took that away by charging... then this guy comes along and tries to get it back and so many people on this board aremopposed to that.... still no one has explained why they feel so passionately that this guy (and the very few like him) shou,d be denied this? not everyone has an extra $320 for a exit row seat...
 

ozbeachbabe

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no... just the same as passengers with bassinets... first come first served.

exactly! re passengers being told they could be moved... many years ago as a plat I was taking to customer care about an issue and they asked what they could do to make things right... I said I needed nothing really, but that my sister was flying to London in a week and could they assign her a good seat? they said sure and placed her in an exit.

at checkin the agent said ... but you're only short, there really are people that could use this seat more than you...

exit rows seats were free, and could be obtained if you got there early enough... now qf took that away by charging... then this guy comes along and tries to get it back and so many people on this board aremopposed to that.... still no one has explained why they feel so passionately that this guy (and the very few like him) shou,d be denied this? not everyone has an extra $320 for a exit row seat...

Did checkin leave your sister in the exit or move her? Sounds like a case of 'Indian Giving'. What was probably a better idea was if they asked you if your sister was tall. If she was by all means give her an exit, if she wasn't if would've been better to give her an aisle or window seat as far forward as possible or if the flight wasn't full, blocking off a seat next to her.

I don't agree will charging for exit rows as I think it's just another grab for money by airlines who do this when they should be given to their status pax eg WP's with the rest being blocked off for airport use & given to those at checkin who would benefit most from them ie tall people who are able bodied. :evil:

It annoys me how these seats are marketed as "extra legroom seats" & the fact that you are seating in the emergency exit becomes a secondary thing or after thought. :mad:

I am aware of many cases either through friends who are FA's or situations I've seen myself where a well meaning son or daughter has booked their elderly parents these "extra legroom seats" & the passengers or even the son or daughter who reserved them are either simply unaware of the responsibilities that go with sitting in an exit or are aware but choose to overlook the responsibility that goes with it because they want the comfort. :evil:
 

MEL_Traveller

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Did checkin leave your sister in the exit or move her? Sounds like a case of 'Indian Giving'. What was probably a better idea was if they asked you if your sister was tall. If she was by all means give her an exit, if she wasn't if would've been better to give her an aisle or window seat as far forward as possible or if the flight wasn't full, blocking off a seat next to her.

there was a comment from the check-in agent along the lines of 'well i don't know how you go this seat' to which my sister replied that it had been arranged through qantas... there may have been some notes to that effect in her booking... anyways they left her where she was (the flight was full). My sister was ok with it all, although she did ring from the airport to mention the comments of the agent. (the compensation was from an earlier flight of mine in F where the IFE or something wasn't working... customer care called me and offered a voucher or something which i didn't take but asked if they might arrange the seat... they were more than happy to do that...) (this is going back four or five years, before the introduction of premium economy)
 

harvyk

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still no one has explained why they feel so passionately that this guy (and the very few like him) shou,d be denied this? not everyone has an extra $320 for a exit row seat...

For me, it's the fact that the guy didn't get a perk that he wanted and is thus taking legal action over it.

If he was planning on taking QF to task over seat pitch in Y in general on long haul services he might have more support, but taking legal action because he never got a seat which QF never promised him in the first place, that is a different story.

Furthermore QF staff where able to find him a bulkhead seat at no charge for the flight to the US, so really this whole thing is over an $80 charge which was all he was charged for the exit row seat on the return flight...
 

harvyk

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It annoys me how these seats are marketed as "extra legroom seats" & the fact that you are seating in the emergency exit becomes a secondary thing or after thought. :mad:

I admit I see them as extra legroom seats. The fact that it's an emergency exit come in only during the "talk" by the FA's. I guess it's one of those things, it's possible for someone to do 100 flights sitting in an emergency exit row without ever needing to use the exit, thus by that stage you don't think very much of the responsibilities which could be asked of you.
 

simongr

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Frankly I think all airlines across the world should adhere to a minimum seat pitch of 34 inches and at least 18 inch width on long-haul flights (more than 4 hours). Some airlines us that minimum like Malaysian and they are proftiable so obviously that business model works. Its just the greedy individuals who look at profits that make seats 31 inch pitch with 17 inch width. They should make all those businessmen sit on one of their airplanes in the economy cabin for 24 hours. 34 inches and 18 inches isn't that luxurious but it does provide for a modicum of personal space and legroom.

At least we haven't heard the call to legislate seat mimima in this thread... a demand that always has the unspoken corollary of "at the same price as the cheapest available now" :shock::


I think you spoke too soon...

still no one has explained why they feel so passionately that this guy (and the very few like him) shou,d be denied this? not everyone has an extra $320 for a exit row seat...

I don't pay for exit rows on QF and can access them irrespective of height.
 

alieninperth

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On a slightly seperate but still related note, I have requested (and paid) for seat selection on my upcoming QF9/10 flights (71d and 66a). I chose 71d because of the space in front (crew hatch I believe) and 66 as it is an exit row. At about 6ft tall I appreciate the extra space but it is not worth it for the other legs of the trip (PER-SIN-LHR-MAN//DUB-LHR-SIN-PER) as they are day /evening flights and I will probably not want to sleep.

My understanding of the rules and from reading here is that should QF not honour my request then I am entitled to claim a refund, irregardless of the seat they moved me to, (within the class, and will loss of amenity).

I suppose the question is, if they move me from 71d to 69d on QF9 will I be entitled to the $20 refund (massive money I know) , given that 69d is not the seat I wanted (it is stardard seat). Note that 81a and k were already booked at time of seat selection. Obviously if they move me upstairs I will not complain.
 

harvyk

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My understanding of the rules and from reading here is that should QF not honour my request then I am entitled to claim a refund, irregardless of the seat they moved me to, (within the class, and will loss of amenity).

If you've paid to be allocated a specific seat and they don't honour that then yes you'd be entitled to a refund. That said QF have usually been pretty good at seat allocations. With limited exception most seat requests I have done I have received, the exceptions are usually an OP-UP and of course I haven't minded not getting my first choice those times... :D I have only ever not received an exit row twice, both times where last minute equipment changes, the first I was placed into the same seat I originally booked except it didn't have a door next to it, and the other time I was moved into row 4...
 

MEL_Traveller

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I admit I see them as extra legroom seats. The fact that it's an emergency exit come in only during the "talk" by the FA's. I guess it's one of those things, it's possible for someone to do 100 flights sitting in an emergency exit row without ever needing to use the exit, thus by that stage you don't think very much of the responsibilities which could be asked of you.

thank goodness the crew don't think the same way :)

my family members who were crew were always of the 'no talk let's focus on safety type' when sitting for take off and landing. their primary focus and thought process was tha. an accident could happen at any time, and they needed to be thinking about the commands they were going to issue.
 

JohnK

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This argument is still going around and around in circles.

I have a friend who is >6'4" and he has spent many a long haul flight in the middle seat in economy somewhere down the back. Did he whinge about it? Sure he did but all he cared about was the destination and he could cope with a few hours in a cramped space if that meant that he could get away from work for a little while.

Luckily he has me as a friend and will now travel up front in business class thanks to BMI Diamond Club.
 

dfcatch

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Hang on....

OLD SYSTEM

If WP, you could request exit row in advance - for free.

If non-status (and tall or whatever), you would rock up early to check-in and try your luck. Sometimes you would be lucky, sometimes not.


NEW SYSTEM

WPs no longer have any "advantage" or "exclusivity" in booking exit rows.

WPs now have to pay (just like others) if they want to pre-reserve an exit.

Other pax (tall or short) now have the same opportunity to pre-reserve an exit, rather than having to check-in early and cross their fingers that "maybe" they could get it.



IMHO - as a WP, I don't like it. I want my exclusive benefit back.

If I was a tall non-WP, then I love it - as u now have the opportunity to pre-reserve a seat that will provide you with a lot more comfort at a price much better than paying for J.



And as far as the argument for the "rights of the tall", in that if you're tall you should be automatically reserved an exit seat.... What a load of BS.

I have physical conditions too you know.....

I have a physical aversion to being seated next to fat people who spill over my armrest, or recliners, or seat kickers, snorers, etc. All of these "amenity destroyers" raise my blood pressure and cause me untold stress.

Where were these clauses in the T&Cs or on the website? Where's my compensation for not getting the amenity promised to me on the Marc Newson flash presentation?

Oh and I'm not 6'10" - so can I sue because I don't get to date hot tall basketball chicks????

I mean seriously mate - get real (or pay for a J seat).
 

Justchecking

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I love the way someone always ascribes the current Y seat pitch(es) on offer as a conspiracy by the greedy airlines....

Of course.

It has nothing at all to do with the fact that the vast majority of pax make their choice of airline solely on price.

At least we haven't heard the call to legislate seat mimima in this thread... a demand that always has the unspoken corollary of "at the same price as the cheapest available now" :shock::rolleyes:

Me? I'm only 5' 8".. but I think 31" pitch sucks.. so I buy exit rows where necessary (say..SQ) and maintain status to get them elsewhere (NZ)... I think it's called putting ones money where ones mouth is.

So true. If you think the seat pitch on Aussie airlines suck, try taking a LCC domestic flight in asia. You are lucky if the seat in front isn't touching your nose when reclined! I'm a midget and even I struggled to feel less than claustrophobic in that seat. And.....it wasn't much cheaper than a domestic Aussie flight. Sorry but I'll take the standard seat pitch on QF\DJ anyway.
 

MEL_Traveller

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And as far as the argument for the "rights of the tall", in that if you're tall you should be automatically reserved an exit seat.... What a load of BS.

I have physical conditions too you know.....

I have a physical aversion to being seated next to fat people who spill over my armrest, or recliners, or seat kickers, snorers, etc. All of these "amenity destroyers" raise my blood pressure and cause me untold stress.

Where were these clauses in the T&Cs or on the website? Where's my compensation for not getting the amenity promised to me on the Marc Newson flash presentation?

recliners... nothing you can do about that. If you recline your seat too then everyone maintains the same amount of space.as for

fat people spilling over your armrest... seat kickers etc...there are implied conditions in any contract... including in the contract of carriage that you have the right to your space (as purchased) and enjoyment of that space. You have the right to complain and seek redress if you do not receive that. You can ask to be reseated or have the issue dealt with by the crew.

It will be interesting to see the exact nature of this claim and how VCAT deals with it, one way or the other.
 

JohnK

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recliners... nothing you can do about that. If you recline your seat too then everyone maintains the same amount of space.as for

fat people spilling over your armrest... seat kickers etc...there are implied conditions in any contract... including in the contract of carriage that you have the right to your space (as purchased) and enjoyment of that space....
So where does "my" space start and finish? Does it include the space up to the seat in front? Or is there an imaginary line where the seat could possibly recline?

If the contract of carriage mentions that I have a right to my space then the seat in front should not be able to recline. And no I do not want to recline as I am uncomfortable in the recline position.

If it is going to be everyone for themselves then you will excuse me if I am only 5'9" and sitting in a bulkhead or exit row and the tall person is down the back somewhere.
 
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MEL_Traveller

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So where does "my" space start and finish? Does it include the space up to the seat in front? Or is there an imaginary line where the seat could possibly recline?

If the contract of carriage mentions that I have a right to my space then the seat in front should not be able to recline. And no I do not want to recline as I am uncomfortable in the recline position.

If it is going to be everyone for themselves then you will excuse me if I am only 5'9" and sitting in a bulkhead or exit row and the tall person is down the back somewhere.

the contract does it mention you have the right to space. there is no imaginary line. all seats recline and you are ab,e to recline your seat as well. in the old days reclining seats was more or less mandatory as that was the only way everyone could see the single movie screen at the front of the cabin (crew would ask all pax to recline their seats when the movie started... at least on Singapore airlines, Thai, air India to name a few).

if you choose not to recline then that is your issue, you have chosen not to utilize the space available to you

completely different to the 7 foot guy who doesn't even have the space available. if you can't fit you can't fit.

qantas does not publish anywhere on it's site that it's seats are not suitable for people 7 foot tall.

it doesn't publish anything as far as I could see about fat people, but jetstar certainly does. it's says if you can't fit in the seat and lower the armrests then you should be proactive and buy a second seat.

so it gives that warning... but mo where does it give a warning saying if you are over xx tall then you should proactively buy an extra leg room seat.

it is implied in the contrac that there will be minimum standards of comfort and safety. without excluding anyone (jetstar does for passengers of size) then you might think thatnthe product is suitable for you. no one has told you otherwise.

there is no disclaimer when you book a seat that says this is not suitable for the following categories of person....
 

harvyk

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the contract does it mention you have the right to space. there is no imaginary line. all seats recline and you are ab,e to recline your seat as well. in the old days reclining seats was more or less mandatory as that was the only way everyone could see the single movie screen at the front of the cabin (crew would ask all pax to recline their seats when the movie started... at least on Singapore airlines, Thai, air India to name a few).

if you choose not to recline then that is your issue, you have chosen not to utilize the space available to you

completely different to the 7 foot guy who doesn't even have the space available. if you can't fit you can't fit.

qantas does not publish anywhere on it's site that it's seats are not suitable for people 7 foot tall.

it doesn't publish anything as far as I could see about fat people, but jetstar certainly does. it's says if you can't fit in the seat and lower the armrests then you should be proactive and buy a second seat.

so it gives that warning... but mo where does it give a warning saying if you are over xx tall then you should proactively buy an extra leg room seat.

it is implied in the contrac that there will be minimum standards of comfort and safety. without excluding anyone (jetstar does for passengers of size) then you might think thatnthe product is suitable for you. no one has told you otherwise.

there is no disclaimer when you book a seat that says this is not suitable for the following categories of person....

The thing is if you’re really tall, you probably already know (just like the guy in the story) to ask about space and not to simply assume that things have been built to include you. You will actively seek out that sort of information. It's no different to a person with a food allergy calling ahead to a restaurant to find out about menu items which they can eat.

So the question is not does QF advertise the amount of space it has available. The question is does someone who does not fit in the space provided have the automatic right to additional space at no extra charge?
 

Rebekkap

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BA permitted a major study on DVT and in fact the incidence of DVT was greatest in F,next J and last of all Y.Why you may ask?Because the more comfortable your seat the less likely you were to get up and walk around.Of course more Y pax have DVTs because there are many more of them than F passengers.So anyone who got an opup then a DVT has a better chance of success!

Have you got a link to that? I googled, but what I found said that it was more likely to occur in economy class because the more cramped the seat, the less likely you are to get up and walk around.
 
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