The Next Next DONE4 planning thread - The Grand BEHEMOTH

[simongr]

The reason for two tickets is that I want to try and do some work in Hong Kong. My itinerary needs to be

syd-USA - stop
usa-LCA - stop
lca-hkg - stop
hkg-home

My understanding of the DONEx rules is that after I go to the US and EUR on my way back to Oz it is only permissible to do a transit without stopover. One ticket would be fantastic.

The reason for ex-SIN is that at the end of the DONE3 I would need to get back to where I started and that would need to be a place other than HKG to make the DAS13 work. As I will be arriving into LHR at about 7:30PM I need a flight out of there somewhere late at night that I could then fly to HKG from.

 

[Dave Noble]

The reason for two tickets is that I want to try and do some work in Hong Kong. My itinerary needs to be

syd-USA - stop
usa-LCA - stop
lca-hkg - stop
hkg-home

My understanding of the DONEx rules is that after I go to the US and EUR on my way back to Oz it is only permissible to do a transit without stopover. One ticket would be fantastic.

You have a misunderstanding there.

The issue with a stopover is if you have 2 intercontinental departures from Asia, that one of them must be a transit without stopover

As you plan to do South West Pacific -> North America -> Europe -> Asia -. South West Pacific, then you will not encounter that restriction

If you wanted, say, to do Australia - Asia - USA - Europe - SWP (via Asia) , then you would have to travel straight through with no stopover from Europe to Australia

Dave

 

[simongr]

Ah - thanks for that. I seemed to be having a mental block on why I couldnt go through Asia on the way there.

Only problem I think is going to be D availability SYD-JFK via LAX. But perhaps this is the chance to go via SFO - currebtly sitting on D7. MIght even spend the day in SFO and fly to JFK the next day.

Good work Dave - you just saved my company $4000

A lot has been happening at work/home that could have threatened this trip so today is the first time that I actually had had a chance to think about this with a clear head.

So it now looks like a simple AA issued DONE4:

syd-sfo-jfk-lhr-lca-lhr-hkg-syd

However... I might try this:

bne-syd-sfo-jfk-lhr-lca-lhr-hkg-syd-hba-syd

 

[Dave Noble]

Ah - thanks for that. I seemed to be having a mental block on why I couldnt go through Asia on the way there.

Only problem I think is going to be D availability SYD-JFK via LAX. But perhaps this is the chance to go via SFO - currebtly sitting on D7. MIght even spend the day in SFO and fly to JFK the next day.

Can also look at SYD-HNL-ORD-LGA as another option which nicely avoids LAX

Good work Dave - you just saved my company $4000

I'll send you my bank details on where to deposit the $500 comission for the savings


Dave

 

[simongr]

I will send the commission through when I get mine for reducing teh cost of these combined trips from A$19,000 to A$10,000.

Also apologies to NM for having not made a proper effort to understand your advice earlier in this thread.

S

 

[NM]

You have a misunderstanding there.

The issue with a stopover is if you have 2 intercontinental departures from Asia, that one of them must be a transit without stopover

That depends on how one interprets the rule wording.

ONLY ONE INTERCONTINENTAL DEPARTURE AND ONE INTERCONTINENTAL ARRIVAL PERMITTED IN EACH CONTINENT EXCEPT AS FOLLOWS -
1. TWO PERMITTED IN NORTH AMERICA WHEN ONE IS A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER.
2. TWO PERMITTED IN ASIA WHEN ONE IS A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER OR ON DIRECT SINGLE PLANE SERVICE BETWEEN SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AND EUROPE.

Given that fare rules returned form the GDS systems seem to be devoid of commas, it is left to interpretation as to whether the "BETWEEN SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AND EUROPE" applies equally to the "WHEN ONE IS A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER" and the "ON DIRECT SINGLE PLANE SERVICE".

In my discussions with our corporate TA (who has always managed to get the fare rules right and even argued fare rule matters with QF and won) the correct interpretation is that it applies to both sides of the "OR", and that would be the consistent manner in which such "OR" and "AND" components of a rule are interpreted.

Also, I believe that to be the intent of the rule. I believe that exception exists to permit travel between Europe and SWP since there is no other viable routing for a xONE4, while there is another viable routing from SWP to NA (i.e. using QF).

I think simongr will run into fare rule arguments trying to convince most agents to issue under the interpretation that the "BETWEEN SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AND EUROPE" only applies to the "ON DIRECT SINGLE PLANE SERVICE".

If you want to try and have the issuing agency match that interpretation, then feel free to do so. I know there are examples of people having xONEx issued using the SWP-Asia-NA as the "transit without stopover" and then stopping in Asia between Europe and SWP. But I would not assume this to be a valid routing under the intent of the rules.

The reason I first suggest the nested DAS13/DONE3 was due to simongr's initial stated desire for a sop in Asia both before and after visits to NA/Europe. That is not permitted under either interpretation of the above rule.

 

[simongr]

I think simongr will run into fare rule arguments trying to convince most agents to issue under the interpretation that the "BETWEEN SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AND EUROPE" only applies to the "ON DIRECT SINGLE PLANE SERVICE".

JUts to be clear though - by going direct to the US rather than via Asia - I am safe from this problem even if I stopover in HKG?

 

[Dave Noble]

JUts to be clear though - by going direct to the US rather than via Asia - I am safe from this problem even if I stopover in HKG?

Absolutely. There is NO issue to worry about in this respect. The problem only exists when you want to do 2 intercontinental departures from Asia

Dave

 

[NM]

JUts to be clear though - by going direct to the US rather than via Asia - I am safe from this problem even if I stopover in HKG?

If you route SWP-NA-EUROPE-ASIA-SWP then no problem. Use QF for SYD-LAX or SYD-SFO or SYD-JFK for SWP-NA and no problems or fare rule ambiguity for EUROPE-ASIA-SWP. but it does not allow your originally desired stop in Asia prior to NA.

 

[simongr]

Just to complicate things - if I dont do a stop in Asia on the way out just fly around a lot can that be allowed? The i/c flight would just be a transit then...

 

[Dave Noble]

Just to complicate things - if I dont do a stop in Asia on the way out just fly around a lot can that be allowed? The i/c flight would just be a transit then...

Don't try to unnecessarily complicate things; basically the intent of the rule is that you have to go directly from Europe-Australia with no stopover and that is the way AA ticketing department interprets and enforces the rule.

You will have an difficult job to get anyone to issue it, though it technically should be allowed due to absence of punctuation but is not worth trying to do just for the sake of it and would cost you extra money since you would have to start heading off to another carrier to get it issued and pay the higher fuel fines

Keep it straightforward and life will be easy

Dave

 

[NM]

Just to complicate things - if I dont do a stop in Asia on the way out just fly around a lot can that be allowed? The i/c flight would just be a transit then...

That depends on how you can convince the issuing agency to interpret the "Transit without stopover" as applying to multiple flight segments and not only to the "between Europe and SWP". I would not even start down the path of trying to win that argument ... but others may be more willing to take the challenge.

 

[simongr]

Ok - the main objective was to get into F NRT-USA. I guess I wil just try to use points to get in QF F

 

[NM]

Ok - the main objective was to get into F NRT-USA. I guess I wil just try to use points to get in QF F

Then if you are willing to purchase a DONE3 from AA ex-NRT, then you can use eVIP for NRT-USA and USA-LHR since the ticket will be issued on 001 AA ticket stock. Then use the money saved buying ex-NRT to get yourself to/from NRT.

Of just waitlist for QF FF points upgrade ex SYD (maybe better chance on SYD-SFO) and be content with an ex-AU DONE4.

 

[simongr]

I think we have a winner. Direct to SFO and then on to JFK. I get to JFK fresh and relaxed - sure I miss out on some miles - but with that trip and my DAS13 to PVG I will be getting closer to requalifying for EXP.

 

[simongr]

All looking good I think:

From	To	Date	Flt	Avail
syd	sfo	8-Mar	qf73	F8 D9
sfo	jfk	8-Mar	aa178	A1 D7
jfk	lhr	14-Mar	aa100	A7 D7
lhr	lca	15-Mar	ba662	D9
lca	lhr	17-Mar	ba663	D9
lhr	hkg	17-Mar	ba27	D9
hkg	syd	21-Mar	cx111	D1

Seems we have a problem. The availability HKG-SYD may be a little scarce but I could stay another night in HKG if required

I just wonder whether it will be one or two eVIPs sfo-jfk-lhr....

 

[serfty]

sfo	jfk	8-Mar	aa178	A1 D7

I just wonder whether it will be one or two eVIPs sfo-jfk-lhr....

Shame QF73 does not get in until 10:05.

Otherwise you could book:

sfo	jfk	8-Mar	aa16 	A7 Y7

It departs 11:30 and you would book in NGBC First seating, not needing to use an eVIP.

 

[simongr]

Oh - is that a config - NGBC seating sold as F?

 

[serfty]

Oh - is that a config - NGBC seating sold as F?

Very Likely!

 

[Shano]

2 of my 4 YUP flights this year were on 763's with NGBC seats.

So if you get a 763, you're almost guaranteed these seats.