The 6:30am BNE-SYD is gone and I am not on it [No ESTA]

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Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Sorry to hear

Couldn't you have just set your alarm clock half an hour earlier?

I find that if I'm going to have to get up at an ungodly hour, I might as well set my alarm for half an hour earlier and take my time rather than have a stressful morning.
 
Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Sorry to hear

Couldn't you have just set your alarm clock half an hour earlier?
I woke up at 2:00am. I had plenty of time and then one thing after another went wrong. Petrol station closed for redevelopment, go to another, wait for Hertz receipt which in hindsight was stupid, wait ~15 minutes in international check-in queue, flight departing early when most of my flights depart late etc.

Not meant to happen. Not the end of the world. All is not lost. The most important thing in life is coming up very soon. Everything else can just take a back seat and remain a great mystery of life.

Come to think of it last night was muddled as well. Took a number of wrong turns taking the car back from airport. It was not meant to happen today which is why I am not angry and I am at peace with myself. Normally something like this would get me extremely angry but I think I knew this was going to happen. Scary isn't it when you get glimpses of your future?
 
Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

My dealings this morning with Virgin confirm that I was dealing with a LCC. Very ordinary service. I am extremely stressed. This should have been a fun weekend.

The only person to blame for your stress is you.

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I understand that getting back would have been my expense. But that wouldn't have been an issue as ESTA approved before departing on domestic flight.

Now they have my money for 3 flights and it's tough luck?

If they'd issued you the BP for the domestic flight and your ESTA had not come through, they'd likely be on the hook for checking you in in the first place, and transporting you back to your port of origin. VA followed the rules here. Stop blaming them.

The mess is of your own making. Quit blaming the airline.
 
Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Sorry to hear JohnK

Unfortunately you were on the first sector of an international flight.
Regardless of fault you have been very unlucky. You have experienced the "Swiss cheese Model" of something untoward happening -all the holes have to line up before something bad can occur.

Root cause was ESTA
But it required petrol station closed + then driving to another + delays waiting for hertz receipt + someone with luggage issues at checkin + Issues with finalising online ESTA application

If one or more of the above did not occur you would have been on your way......



Everyone needs a Visa to travel to the US.
You either get a Visa Sticker prior to travel + passport Visa stamp at port of entry, or an ESTA + Passport visa Stamp at port of entry.

Irrespective of whether you have a Visa Sticker or ESTA number you still must be approved at the port of entry to enter the US under the conditions of the Visa Sticker or ESTA.

ESTA travellers are bound by the conditions of the Visa Waiver Program.

The Visa Waiver program just means you dont have to apply through the US embassy first, just pay your money and fill in a form online.

So Practically ESTA is the same as a Visa Sticker


Additionally the ESTA helps airlines to greatly mitigate the risk of conveying passengers to an international port of entry who are then refused entry.

Cynical me also says that the price of your fare may have had some weight in the airline's decision to refuse you carriage.
 
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Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Oh C'mon.
Everyone bar Santa Claus has been blamed here for what is a simple and easily avoidable error that even the newest travellers manage to avoid.
The responsibility lies only with you John, and attempting to shift blame to others is quite laughable.
Calling VA a "LCC" is equally laughable.
Why should you get special treatment from VA ? You didn't adhere to the rules of travelling to the USA and you should bear the responsibility, not VA.
 
Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

an ESTA is not a visa. As others have said Australia has an almost identical system for those who do not require visa's to enter here, the ETA. And Canada has or is in the process of implementing the same thing.

JohnK should have checked the entry requirements of the country he was visiting, even ATTEMPTING or hinting at making this VA's fault is just absurd.
 
Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

JohnK should have checked the entry requirements of the country he was visiting, even ATTEMPTING or hinting at making this VA's fault is just absurd.



In JohnK's defence, He has said on numerous occasion he accepts the fault for not getting an ESTA in time. However, sometimes airlines can play hardball as well whether they were entitled to do so or not is not the issue. Airlines on many occasions have bent their own rules to get passengers to their destinations.
 
Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Not wanting to be rude but how does one not know the visa/entry requirements of a country long before you turn up to the airport? It's pretty much the first thing I do before I book anything.
 
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Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Sorry to hear this happened JohnK.

At the end of the day it's a lesson learned. Always check visa requirements and get visas well ahead of time.

Whilst it would have been theoretically possible for VA to short check you to SYD, I wouldn't rely on it. For the most part the check in agent seems to have followed procedure. I have had similar arguments with transits across multiple tickets (e.g. a transit visa on arrival, but connecting to a separate PNR).

FYI - As a matter of course I always carry a printed copy of my ESTA and all air tickets as some check in agents actually want to see it (not just take your word for it). This is not unique to any one airline.
 
Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Not wanting to be rude but how does one not know the visa/entry requirements of a country long before you turn up to the airport? It's pretty much the first thing I do before I book anything.

As the ESTA is valid for 2 years it makes sense to get the ESTA close to the departure date. This increases the risk of forgetting to do so especially if the ticket is an advance purchase.
 
Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

As the ESTA is valid for 2 years it makes sense to get the ESTA close to the departure date. This increases the risk of forgetting to do so especially if the ticket is an advance purchase.


I know that but this is something important that is critical to you being allowed to fly. It's the one thing that if not done will derail your entire trip. Seems to me I would be putting in place some reminders to ensure it was done.
 
Not meant to happen. Not the end of the world. All is not lost. The most important thing in life is coming up very soon. Everything else can just take a back seat and remain a great mystery of life.

Boom tish. ;)

The older I get the more I think things happen for a reason. MasterP returned home early/unexpectedly from a trip to Fiji last week. Called in for an interview within five days and a long awaited apprenticeship obtained.
(Still working through this logic with the DVT thing but am starting to work a few things out. And because of the seriousness of it the GP's are finally listening to me and actually looking at my health history with a different perspective and not treating issues in complete isolation as before. )
 
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Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

How is Virgin even remotely at fault?

You should have checked the VISA/TRAVEL requirements well BEFORE your planned departure.

I don't think you deserve any compensation at all.

Not your fault? Sorry JK, this has occurred because, as you say, you didn't realise that you needed an ESTA and left it too late to get it. Nothing to do with a LCC etc etc

Thinking that they should re-open check-in etc because you weren't organised isn't reasonable I suggest.

The only person to blame for your stress is you.


The mess is of your own making. Quit blaming the airline.

Well said by all of you.

Only one person is to blame here.

Raising this issue here as a problem with the airline is just plain wrong.

This is a problem with an individual making a mistake (which they have acknowledged) and trying to get the airline to take the blame for it and provide compensation.
 
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Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

I always write a reminder to get my ESTA on my thongs. You should consider that for next time.
 
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Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Why couldn't VA look at who is booked to travel tomorrow, next day etc and email those who don't have ESTAs already?
It's not difficult for VA - would avoid these last minute issues and heck - VA could provide a 'premium' service by charging a fee to do the application for passengers too.

While VA is correct by the hard and fast rulebook - they really ****ed up. It's not like JohnK is the first person in history not to have an ESTA. Quoting you an obscene amount to get on the next flight is horrible customer service. It's not the way to handle this situation with a distressed customer.

I also remember a case last year in reverse. US passenger with a domestic US connection and he wasn't permitted to board the domestic segment because he didn't have an Australian visa.
 
Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Why couldn't VA look at who is booked to travel tomorrow, next day etc and email those who don't have ESTAs already?
It's not difficult for VA - would avoid these last minute issues and heck - VA could provide a 'premium' service by charging a fee to do the application for passengers too.

While VA is correct by the hard and fast rulebook - they really ****ed up. It's not like JohnK is the first person in history not to have an ESTA. Quoting you an obscene amount to get on the next flight is horrible customer service. It's not the way to handle this situation with a distressed customer.

I also remember a case last year in reverse. US passenger with a domestic US connection and he wasn't permitted to board the domestic segment because he didn't have an Australian visa.

The problem with advance notifications is that it sets an expectation. A passenger won't necessarily look to find out their visa requirements because they expect the airline to do it for them.

If a passenger changes email address or contact details, or a VA notification goes into spam, or the passenger doesn't open an email (etc etc) and later claims they never received visa information... who is to blame? The passenger would argue VA is because VA has taken it upon themselves to notify all passengers of visa requirements.

How can an airline know if every passenger on the flight requires a visa or transit authority? What if the airline only identifies one but not another? Who's to blame?

Sure - JohnK isn't the first person to forget an ESTA or other visa. But how does the airline know it would be approved? Plenty of people don't get ESTAs approved immediately. That puts VA in a very difficult position - they have accepted the passenger for travel and are then responsible to get them back home. Unless the passenger signs an indemnity or waiver. But by the time you do that, you'd have missed check-in anyway.

if the cost of returning the passenger home exceeds the fare paid (as in this case), why should the airline pay for that, or increase other fares to pay for it?

Most regular passengers would know that if you want to voluntarily change your flight before departure, you have to pay the new fare. VA was proposing the new fare. Not sure if that's unreasonable?
 
Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Complaining about VA acting like a LCC when you've paid $266 for a return flight to the US seems a little hypocritical ;)
 
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