Stay with a friend

[Cynicor]

I was just listening to a BBC Business podcast where they mentioned that some companies have 'stay with a friend' clauses in their travel policy, enabling people to stay with friends instead of hotels. The compensation provided in return is (in this article) 150USD to pay for a dinner.

I'm just wondering if anyone has these in their own contracts and if they've ever been used. At first glance it sounds reasonable but 150USD wouldn't find me a nice dinner for 3 with alcohol, and the bed/room will not normally be anywhere near as nice as a private hotel for 200-400USD.

I guess there is the social advantage, say if you were going to catch up with friends anyway. So- does anyone have them, or any experience with them

Jon

 

[oz_mark]

I have had stays on 'per diems' where there is a certain amount of money per day to cover lodging and meals, and how you divide it up is pretty much up to you.

These days, I tend to go the actual expenses route for my travel.

 

[Evan]

My company allows you can stay with a friend/family etc. There is some small official allowances but you its upto you if you want to.
The only people i know ever take that option are people who are on say 3yr overseas contracts and returning home for some reason and they chose to stay for example with family even though its a work trip.

Our company will be more than reasonable on costs but nothing official.

We have per day allowance for food you can spend as you wish.

E

 

[Mal]

My co allows for this - you'll end up being paid a certain amount per night + allowances for meals etc.

Never used it, and can't see me using it.

 

[simongr]

When I travelled for business in the UK I would often go to cities where friends were based - I would still stay in a hotel but would meet for dinner - sometimes getting a takeaway as that would be cheaper than a meal for one in a restaurant.

I am a big believer in reimbursement for actual spend rather than per diems - a lot of people seem to view the per diem as a chance to get one over on the company by not spending the full amount and making some form of "profit". Personally when I travel I want to eat to the same standard as if I was at home

I recall at my last employer one of our team stayed with his parents for a week or two whilst on a job and my boss bit*hed and moaned that he claimed per diem even though he had saved $170 per night on hotel bills

 

[Dave Noble]

I am a big believer in reimbursement for actual spend rather than per diems - a lot of people seem to view the per diem as a chance to get one over on the company by not spending the full amount and making some form of "profit". Personally when I travel I want to eat to the same standard as if I was at home

I just view them as an opportunity to take advantage of what the tax office allows as reasonable expenditure

Dave

 

[oz_mark]

I am a big believer in reimbursement for actual spend rather than per diems - a lot of people seem to view the per diem as a chance to get one over on the company by not spending the full amount and making some form of "profit". Personally when I travel I want to eat to the same standard as if I was at home

I recall at my last employer one of our team stayed with his parents for a week or two whilst on a job and my boss bit*hed and moaned that he claimed per diem even though he had saved $170 per night on hotel bills

In general, for fairly simple travel requirements, per diems do offer the advantage of simplicity. However, I did not find they were particulalry profitable!

 

[Evan]

Trust me, in some countries you don't make money ! (going on tax office rates) other you do.

I have no issues with the per day rate, but what i hate is when some people will not want to eat in place xzy because its a $40 for dinner and they want to save as much as that for example $100 as they can.
We have a little bit of this with shall we say tight people when we have a mix of expenses paid and daily are on the same trip (In our company different countries have different rules)

As far as i know most countries seem to go with the expenses paid, Australia is more unique in the per day allowances (due to our tax setup i understand)

E

 

[NM]

I am a big believer in reimbursement for actual spend rather than per diems - a lot of people seem to view the per diem as a chance to get one over on the company by not spending the full amount and making some form of "profit". Personally when I travel I want to eat to the same standard as if I was at home

I prefer per-diems, not to make a profit, but because there is no way to claim the real cost of real expenses. For example, as a husband and father of 4, when I travel for business the costs of managing the family at home increase. Mrs NM is very busy running kids around by herself that she chooses to use prepared meals or takeaways/dine-in options a lot more than we normally would. And she has to pay for babysitting (even if its just paying the older kids to baby sit the 3yo) etc. These things cannot be claimed as part of my travel costs, but can be covered by unspent per-diem allowances.

Even when using a per-diem allowance, I still tend to eat better than when at home. At home I would never consider spending $50 on a restaurant meal unless it was a very special occasion or I was feeding the whole family (ok, I may stretch to $100 for all six of us).

So I don't use the per-diem allowance as a money making means, but as a way to ensure Mrs NM is not stressed about spending a little extra to maintain her sanity while I am away.

A few years back I was on a travel policy that reimbursed real expenses. This was back when the A$ was trading around US$0.50. But they would not pay a bar tab, just the meal tab. So when a group of us would go to dinner and start with a few drinks at the bar it was costing me about $10 a beer! Then every meal we had to ask for split receipts. What a pain that was. Now with per-diems its much easier. Its calculated in local currency so exchange rates don't kill us. And at the end of a meal we just toss the money into a pool in the middle of the table and walk out. Expense claims are much easier as well.

My hotel and transport costs are covered as real expenses, but meals and incidentals are per-diems.

oh yes, and as Dave says, the tax benefits can be helpful since my company pays lower per-diem rates than the ATO deems as reasonable limits.

 

[simongr]

Apologies guys I wasnt meaning to imply that you were doing that - just that I have seen people doing it. I am certainly lucky with my current boss in reimbursing some sometimes very high bills

 

[oz_mark]

Apologies guys I wasnt meaning to imply that you were doing that - just that I have seen people doing it. I am certainly lucky with my current boss in reimbursing some sometimes very high bills

It is certainly easier when things like meals/drinks with clients are involved to do things on the actual expense basis.

HAving used both systems, I prefer the actual expense system, at least for most of my travel, which is domestic anyway. Certainly for overseas travel, per diem's can be easier to manage (with exchange rates).

There is also a wierd bit in the company travel policy that reduces a per diem on the day of travel as the meal will be supplied on the plane!

 

[albatross710]

This thread promted me to go look back at the ATO definitions for 2007-2008 (and now doubt tomorrow they'll have 2008-2009 available). FOr the record: TD 2007/21 - Income tax: what are the reasonable travel and meal allowance expense amounts for 2007-2008? (As at 25 July 2007)

Some interesting reading. Incidentals can be claimed even when not a full day of travel ie overnight away, 1 nights accomodation and 2 days incidentals.

9. The reasonable amount applies in full to each day of travel covered by the allowance, without the need to apportion for any part-day travel on the first and last day.

As a smaller company I just use the tax office rates as my 'travel poicy'.

 

[NM]

As a smaller company I just use the tax office rates as my 'travel poicy'.

As a large company, ours are typically less than 50% of the ATO rates, and some are quite a bit less (such as USA being less than 30%).

 

[albatross710]

ours are typically less than 50% of the ATO rates

That is interesting. Possibly a reflection of the better corporate discounts that the larger corporate can negotiate on hotels/meals.

When I travel on the ATO rates I do find that it easily possible to spend that much on the additional costs of travel.

 

[NM]

That is interesting. Possibly a reflection of the better corporate discounts that the larger corporate can negotiate on hotels/meals.

When I travel on the ATO rates I do find that it easily possible to spend that much on the additional costs of travel.

My per-diems are not for hotels, just for meals and incidentals. Hotels are covered as real expenses. No corporate discounts or negotiated rates for meals. They cost the same for me as for anyone else who walks into the same restaurant.

 

[kpc]

Hotels are covered as real expenses

Can you book rooms with club access?

 

[Dave Noble]

Can you book rooms with club access?

If I booked a room for which breakfast was included ( e.g. booked a club room with breakfast in the lounge ) the per diem rate paid by the company would drop by $12

Dave

 

[Mal]

If I booked a room for which breakfast was included ( e.g. booked a club room with breakfast in the lounge ) the per diem rate paid by the company would drop by $12

And mine by about $20. Hence why I don't tend to want rooms that include breakfast!

 

[Evan]

And mine like this....

Breakfast -10%
Lunch -20%
Dinner -35%

-% of per diem rate.

E

 

[NM]

Can you book rooms with club access?

Hotels are booked by the corporate travel agency at the "preferred" hotels at negotiated rates. This generally does not include Club or Executive level rooms. However, hotel program status can sometimes help there . On a recent trip to Malaysia, my work colleague staying at the same hotel held top tier status with the hotel and so had lounge access. He just asked for two room keys and gave me one so I also have access to the exec lounge by using his room key in the lift. The lounge became our after-hours office each evening .

Same goes for car rental. Real expenses and booked at the corporate rate. Upgrades to larger vehicles are permitted if travelling with other staff members and sharing the car, otherwise its a "standard" size car (such as Chevy Malibu in the USA). But the corp rates include all the insurances, waivers etc, so makes it simple - just decline all extras offered.