SQ Tips, Trips and Tales

[vitagen]

Ok bit the bullet and got a friend to fly with me from Hkg-sin-Mel in suites. 63k and 200 fees! Got the a380 both ways so I hope I get the new suitesv2. Got a 14 hr layover in sg so gonna try and get 3 tpr meals in, they still closed 2-5am?

 

[mel-world]

Good to see this post. I'll be interested to see if we get the same response. We are on a paid fare so chose to move from the 380 (SQ 217) to an overnight 777 back from SIN (SQ 237). After some advice on this forum, I wrote a polite letter to the SQ PPS Co-ord in MEL asking if they would consider some points compensation for the reduction from R to F and less overnight catering. The note has been forwarded to Customer Relations so waiting on outcome. I'll let you know how I go.

Just to let you know that SQ gave us each 20,000 points as a good will gesture after this equipment swap and our subsequent flight change. We are quite happy with this response as it mainly reflects the 'downgrade' from Suites to a normal F seat and since this is only one sector of our itinerary.

 

[Dannyism]

I looked at doing this booking, but I think I have decided not to. You experts may be able to offer me advice but I was looking to go rtn (to get the stopover) SYD-ZRH. It seems at the moment the redemption for 2 would be 450500 + AU$1842.48 which is made of taxes being AU$341.28 + surcharges of AU$1501.20.

From my understanding, under the new system I will have to pay 590000 +AU$341.28 (assuming taxes don't change) but the surcharge will disappear. If that's correct, I'm up for an additional 141500 miles but at a saving of $1501.20, therefore AU1.1c per point (I've never really valued KF points, but I would have though AU1.5c/pt would be more like it, but it's still not totally ridiculous). Probably more important is the question "how much can I buy 141500 points for"? I'd suggest (without going and looking at current CC offers) that I could likely find 3 cards that would achieve that at around AU$1000 or in any case, less than au$1500 (any comment?).

Also importantly for us, we really do not want to go to Europe in Winter so the timing is wrong (we're intending 2019).

... and then came somebody suggesting *A RTW for 260000 (I think), which has me thinking that I have very little to gain by rushing into a booking now, but possibly a lot more options by waiting. The only thing really bothering me is whether that little rumour about SQ locking down suite redemptions to status pax, turns out to be true!

Can anyone see any glaring stuff ups I'm making with my thought process?

Yeah, I use a different methodology.

2x return R to ZRH = 24,000 AUD.
Taxes and Fees ~= 2,000AUD
Points ~= 450,000

This gives $2000 + 450,000p = $24,000
450,000p = $22,000
1p = $22,000/450,000p
1p = $0.0488 or ~=4.9c

I see a point worth 4.9c to me. I don't want a 'refund' from SQ @ 1.1c, I want SQ to buy them from me at 4.9c

also, a bit more subjectively, SQ points are fairly hard to come by for me.

 

[get me outta here]

snip

In addition IF Suite rewards did become harder to get, booking now with a strategy of moving the date of the flights would not help you in terms of availability as you can only move to a date that has award availability. You would just be left with a booking that you could not move!

Wondering what would be the 'cost' of cancellation a now unwanted flight, v the new price regime if the flight date does turn out to be changeable?

 

[diningdecadence]

Yeah, I use a different methodology.

2x return R to ZRH = 24,000 AUD.
Taxes and Fees ~= 2,000AUD
Points ~= 450,000

This gives $2000 + 450,000p = $24,000
450,000p = $22,000
1p = $22,000/450,000p
1p = $0.0488 or ~=4.9c

I see a point worth 4.9c to me. I don't want a 'refund' from SQ @ 1.1c, I want SQ to buy them from me at 4.9c

also, a bit more subjectively, SQ points are fairly hard to come by for me.

always a good conversation starter - so sure you may get 4.9c "value", but would you ever consider paying $24k cold hard cash to take those flights...

 

[tizey]

Yeah, I use a different methodology.

2x return R to ZRH = 24,000 AUD.
Taxes and Fees ~= 2,000AUD
Points ~= 450,000

This gives $2000 + 450,000p = $24,000
450,000p = $22,000
1p = $22,000/450,000p
1p = $0.0488 or ~=4.9c

I see a point worth 4.9c to me. I don't want a 'refund' from SQ @ 1.1c, I want SQ to buy them from me at 4.9c

also, a bit more subjectively, SQ points are fairly hard to come by for me.

An alternate view on valuation methodology:

2x return Y to ZRH = 5,000 AUD (school holidays, 1 transit stop with major airline SQ/EK/QF/EY)
Therefore, value attributable to points = $5,000 AUD
Taxes & Fees of $2,000 = 'upgrade' cost which I'm happy to pay extra to lie flat. I would pay $7000 for 2 return trips to ZRH in J, every day of the week. In my mind, I couldnt justify any more as I'm a tightarse and would travel at the back of the bus to have more money at the other end.

323,000p = $5,000 (Existing SQ Award Chart for J flights MEL-ZRH with 15% discount)
p = 1.55c


Under new award chart, I save $1700 odd in fuel surcharges, but need more points.
420,000p = $6,700 (Being New SQ Chart MEL-ZRH, and $5000 + $2000 tax saved - $300 in tax still to pay)
p = 1.59c

So for me, the changes arent one of costs, but rather accessibility. It is much easier to obtain $1700 than it is to obtain an extra 97,000 KF Miles.

As long as I'm producing KF miles for less than 1.6c/mile, I'm a happy camper. Now to find a method that works for my circumstances....

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Yeah, I use a different methodology.

As said, value is variable, but it's commonly held that the base value should not be what they ask for the tix, rather what you would be prepared to pay for them. If you would cough up $24000 then that's the value. If you said there's no way I'd pay that, my max would be $8000, then $8000 actually becomes the value to you.

For me, I wouldn't even pay $8000 I'm afraid.

 

[Dannyism]

always a good conversation starter - so sure you may get 4.9c "value", but would you ever consider paying $24k cold hard cash to take those flights...

As said, value is variable, but it's commonly held that the base value should not be what they ask for the tix, rather what you would be prepared to pay for them. If you would cough up $24000 then that's the value. If you said there's no way I'd pay that, my max would be $8000, then $8000 actually becomes the value to you.


For me, I wouldn't even pay $8000 I'm afraid.

I do love a good discussion! And I disagree in a respectful and non-hostile way.


That definition of value is simply not true. VALUE = BENEFIT - COST
It is true that everyone perceives value different, but value can be sold. That's how people sell new model cars or phones even though they cost more than the existing model.


Whether I would pay 24k for flights or not is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is the value and the cost. Let's break it down into the two variables.

Value - Flying first class to Europe, the 'once in a life time experience, the price of the flights as 24,000aud, the price of the flights as cheap as anyone has ever seen them, 16,000aud?,
Cost - 2000aud fees, 450000 points, lack of flexibility, frigging around with changes because of this march 23rd change, credit card churning, the cost of credit card fees, time spent researching.

So in reality, for me, the value is more than just 4.9c per point, it's intangible. For me its more like....

Value = B(the 'once in a life time experience, he price of the flights as cheap as anyone has ever seen them, 16,000aud?) - C(2000aud fees, 450000 points, lack of flexibility, frigging around with changes because of this march 23rd change, credit card churning, the cost of credit card fees, time spent researching)

 

[Dannyism]

Wondering what would be the 'cost' of cancellation a now unwanted flight, v the new price regime if the flight date does turn out to be changeable?

It's like 30usd i think ?

Oh wait, I think I see what your getting at.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Value - Flying first class to Europe, the 'once in a life time experience, the price of the flights as 24,000aud, the price of the flights as cheap as anyone has ever seen them, 16,000aud?,

SQ is currently selling F from Australia to Europe for AUD12500.

 

[tizey]

I do love a good discussion! And I disagree in a respectful and non-hostile way.

Likewise. And whilst I can see your point on value, I still disagree.

Value to me, is an estimate on its monetary worth. Something is only worth to you (or to others), what you or another party is willing to pay for it. Eg. I might value my house at $1m, but if try and sell it and there are no buyers at $1m, but only one willing to pay $800k, is the value of my house $800k or $1mil? What if the bank valued it at $1mil - does this suddenly make it worth $1mil, even though there isnt a buyer at that price?

Whereas benefit - its what its worth to you. Eg. Whats the benefit to you of first class over economy? What is the benefit of a particular school zone over another when looking at property? In both cases, its going to come back to how much you are willing to pay for that benefit over an alternative.

 

[Dannyism]

SQ is currently selling F from Australia to Europe for AUD12500.

So 25,000aud for 2pax?

 

[Dannyism]

Likewise. And whilst I can see your point on value, I still disagree.

Value to me, is an estimate on its monetary worth. Something is only worth to you (or to others), what you or another party is willing to pay for it. Eg. I might value my house at $1m, but if try and sell it and there are no buyers at $1m, but only one willing to pay $800k, is the value of my house $800k or $1mil? What if the bank valued it at $1mil - does this suddenly make it worth $1mil, even though there isnt a buyer at that price?

Whereas benefit - its what its worth to you. Eg. Whats the benefit to you of first class over economy? What is the benefit of a particular school zone over another when looking at property? In both cases, its going to come back to how much you are willing to pay for that benefit over an alternative.

Yeah that's a good example with the house. I'll rebut a few points.

"Value to me, is an estimate on its monetary worth." I would say that you can estimate the monetary worth of somethings value.

"Whereas benefit - its what its worth to you" This is true, and you can't deny the redemption ticket is worth in this example Melbourne to Zurich return in suits for 2 pax.

I believe we are somewhat in agreement over the cost, being the points, fees, hassle, etc.

Coming back to your example of the house. Just because I would never buy a million dollar house because I'd only ever buy a house worth 300k doesn't make the house have that much value, cost that much, or it's estimated worth is that much. There ARE buyers of SQ first class, and they pay 25,000aud for 2pax au to eu return. I think that's cough*king madness, but it doesn't make those first class flights any less valuable...

 

[tizey]

Yeah that's a good example with the house. I'll rebut a few points.

"Value to me, is an estimate on its monetary worth." I would say that you can estimate the monetary worth of somethings value.

"Whereas benefit - its what its worth to you" This is true, and you can't deny the redemption ticket is worth in this example Melbourne to Zurich return in suits for 2 pax.

I believe we are somewhat in agreement over the cost, being the points, fees, hassle, etc.

Coming back to your example of the house. Just because I would never buy a million dollar house because I'd only ever buy a house worth 300k doesn't make the house have that much value, cost that much, or it's estimated worth is that much. There ARE buyers of SQ first class, and they pay 25,000aud for 2pax au to eu return. I think that's cough*king madness, but it doesn't make those first class flights any less valuable...

Agreed on the cost, definitely.

I'm not sure I conveyed myself clearly with the house example based on your response. Try this:

- You estimate its value to be $1million.
- You go to auction with a reserve of $1million.
- The auction fails, and the highest bidder was for $800k.
- Whats the value of the house?

Now, lets try a more realistic example which is based on fact.

I have mrs tizey & I booked in F SIN-MEL on a date in April 2017. Its a 777 with only 4 F seats. Two of them are occupied by mrs tizey & I on a saver F redemption, and a dummy booking reveals that the other 2 are still available for sale at a price of $5197.60 SGD each.

We redeemed both of them for 127,500 kf miles + about $600 odd in taxes.

Whats the value on these seats? I can't see why using the retail price makes sense - no-one wants them at that price.

To us, it was about $1500 as thats what it cost us for 1 way back from Vietnam (its actually a redemption from Vietnam, but I've excluded the DAD-SIN leg for purposes of this example).

My way:
127,500p = $1500 - $600
127,500p = $900
p = 0.7c

Your way:
127,500p = $5197.60 SGD x 2 / 1.08 (bring back to AUD)
127,500p = $9,625 AUD
p = 7.5c

So have I done myself an injustice here redeeming at 0.7c, or have I got myself a ripper of a deal redeeming each point for 7.5cents? Thats up to the individual to assess.

For me, I've got no hesitation in saying it was a belter of a deal because the cost of flying economy was $3,000 return. Factoring in the out of pocket $ cost of points & the taxes, the return trip cost me $1,976 (exactly - I keep track of points costs & tax costs to ensure I'm saving money and flying at the pointy end at the same time) - saving me $1,000 on something I was going to buy.

But instead of popping sleeping tablets and having an anxious mrs tizey next to me tearing her hair out the entire flight, I'm sipping champagne, eating lobster and laughing at mrs tizey getting busted by the hosties going 'wow' at absolutely every aspect of how OTT F just is as she calmly sips some more Krug.

Now whats the value of that!!!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Whats the value on these seats? I can't see why using the retail price makes sense - no-one wants them at that price.

Exactly - the two award seats are seats SQ knows they cannot sell. The other two they probably think they might have a chance of selling (my friend buys them for example, but do they have enough people to fill all flights a day? Probably not). And if they can't sell them they clear a waitlist.

 

[hummel]

Personally I've decided to sit out and not rush anything before the changes.

I'm rather points rich and cash poor at the moment.

Still hurts me though!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

So that is at least say May 2019?

That is a long way off and your travel plans do not seem to have any firm destinations you want to be at.

I think that you would be much better off waiting

I do like your arguments. It's why I've decided not to rush. The point loss is a pain but the $ gain offsets to a degree (the size of the degree may be debatable). Our plans are fluid and TBH since becoming involved in this forum, travel is as much about where the bargain lies as much as what the destination is. We aren't likely to visit a cheap destination because it's cheap, but the world has a lot to offer and there seems to be soooooo many destinations that are fabulous in their own respective rights, that the value also plays a big part. For EU .... let's be honest, it's a bloody big place and I've only been to Amsterdam and my +1 has not been at all so the value plays a huge part ... we really do not care what we see first! ZRH seemed like it had more availability than FRA or CDG. It's really that simple! LHR is not on my +1's radar and TBH, I've done it and there's many other places I'd prefer to see than the UK ... again.

 

[vitagen]

I would only pay 3.5k return for F and 2.5k return on J.... to Europe/us yes I'm tight.

 

[Lemon_Party]

OK - been a regular lurker on this and the other SQ threads for a while. Haven't had chance to catch up on the last week or so's posts, but looks like this threads gone into overdrive.

Anyway, based on all of the many previous tips, trips and tales, I've bitten the bullet and plunged on an F redemption. Wanted to try suites for a while, so booked for 2 x SYD-SIN-HKG in March next year. I'm working in WA away from our East Coast head office and unsure what the next 6-12 months looks like and where I'll be when, so pushed as far forward as possible and booked one way. The final date can be modified and the flights home can be a future problem. Something to look forward to is the main thing!

Was very impressed with the ease of linking VA account, transferring points and booking on SQ. All done in under 5 minutes. 172k VA points and $550 for 2 pax in what looks to be one of the best ways to fly commercially is great value and had to go for it before the deadline.

Thanks to the many regular contributors here for the advice posted and for making me envious enough to speculatively book in an award

 

[PDog]

Really interesting conversation! I think I'm more closely aligned with Dannyism

I haven't done the maths re cost benefit, because for me the points are rolled gold right now- I intended to book 2 weeks after d-day to Europe for an Easter 2018 trip for my sisters 40th (usually we go in August to catch the UK school holidays)- and simply to not have enough time to earn the point required post devaluation. Our money pit is by no means endless, but right now it's greater than the points-pit! Am desperately hoping (and a massive thanks to all of the cool heads on this board who've provided reasoned arguements as to why we'll be ok!) that i can change the date of the tickets we've secured without penalty, cause I expect this will be our only chance for R (travelling every year to does not allow those points to accumulate!)

i am intrigued by what people are willing to pay for R/F/J... I reckon I'd go up to $6-$7k for F?? Maybe I'm still scarred as my time down the back of the long haul bus is too recent, lol!