Should I stay or should I go (EuroZone)

[Abdul_A350]

The simple fact is Islam is a religion of hate

Denouncement appears to be somewhat of a theme, so as a newly minted Australian I should probably take this opportunity to denounce this and the various other jingoistic babble above.

If you take (say) an "average" US Christian and an "average" Nigerian Christian and introduce them to one another, chances are they're not going to look at each other and thing "Hey, a fellow Christian!" And guess what, that's pretty much the way it works with "us Muslims". It's not like you just stick an average Afghani, an average Somalian, and an average Indonesian in a room and they do a secret handshake or kneeling ritual and go about planning global domination. We just do not identify with one another in that way. So as long as you keep invoking the above "us and them" rhetoric, you're doomed to keep mumbling irrelevant nonsense into the ether.

Ask my youngest daughter about Brussels and the conversation will run something along the following.

"So what did you think of the Brussels terrorist attacks?"
"Like, awful. Duh. What else is there to say?"

Those of you insisting she should be an ambassador for an extremely heterogeneous group of 1.X billion people are, quite frankly, insane.

Guess what? Your "average Muslim" spends very little time thinking about local politics, global politics, other religions, or even their own religion, and most of their time thinking about falling in love, starting a family, or getting their family through the next years and decades. Much I like imagine is true of the average Christian or atheist. When they're not wasting everyone's time on amateur attempts at religious anthropology, anyway.

 

[Moindardt]

The Quran has many passages specifically related to killing of any non-muslim or anyone who practices another religion. It is specific about someone who leaves Islam for another religion. I want to comment on a specific situation but the family are so worried about her entire family getting massacred that I can't. When it came up a few months ago, her fear was palpable.

The Quran specifically claims to honor the old testament but specifically believes in destroying everything that is what makes the old testament what it is.

Christianity has made many mistakes, don't get me wrong, but it has learnt from those mistakes to a large extent. Islam has not learnt anything and is intent on destroying many of the history of Islam that doesn't comply with their current narrow view. I always laugh at the whole thought that it was passed on memorised and nothing changed, despite the fact they find many historical references which differed over time. Any Quran which was found to not say the same thing was destroyed (Christians did the same with the bible). Much of the justification is based on a strict reading of what things mean in today's context and that there is no way anything was changed from what Mohammed spoke. The new testament has many variations and it is taught to not take the exact meaning but the context of it.

I am quite happy to have a Theological debate but I still haven't met a strict muslim who will ever allow for the fact that the Quran today is not exactly what it was back then, or that the meanings are not the same. Therein lies the entire source of all Islamic problems.

 

[Moindardt]

The simple fact is Islam is a religion of hate

I possibly should put this in context. The true Islam is a religion of love but this has been destroyed but the focus of literal translation instead of contextual. The muslims I did a Comparative Theology course with 30 years ago are not the muslims of today. By believing that there is no way humans can modify the word of god for their own benefit, they have destroyed the word of god. Given that we all believe in the same old testament, we are all talking about the same god.

 

[Quickstatus]

Denouncement appears to be somewhat of a theme, so as a newly minted Australian I should probably take this opportunity to denounce this and the various other jingoistic babble above.

If you take (say) an "average" US Christian and an "average" Nigerian Christian and introduce them to one another, chances are they're not going to look at each other and thing "Hey, a fellow Christian!" And guess what, that's pretty much the way it works with "us Muslims". It's not like you just stick an average Afghani, an average Somalian, and an average Indonesian in a room and they do a secret handshake or kneeling ritual and go about planning global domination. We just do not identify with one another in that way. So as long as you keep invoking the above "us and them" rhetoric, you're doomed to keep mumbling irrelevant nonsense into the ether.

Ask my youngest daughter about Brussels and the conversation will run something along the following.

"So what did you think of the Brussels terrorist attacks?"
"Like, awful. Duh. What else is there to say?"

Those of you insisting she should be an ambassador for an extremely heterogeneous group of 1.X billion people are, quite frankly, insane.

Guess what? Your "average Muslim" spends very little time thinking about local politics, global politics, other religions, or even their own religion, and most of their time thinking about falling in love, starting a family, or getting their family through the next years and decades. Much I like imagine is true of the average Christian or atheist. When they're not wasting everyone's time on amateur attempts at religious anthropology, anyway.

Thanks Abdul_A350.

The peaceful majority just want to get on with their lives and are apolitical whatever their skin colour or creed. They are irrelevant not because it's their fault, to the contrary. They are irrelevant because it's the radicals who believe their same holy book validates what they are doing. I do say however most peaceful moderate Muslims do take offence at a lower threshold than others - eg, demonstrations over a cartoon.

The religion has a problem.

Similarly most will say that the Catholic Church has a problem that it must deal with regarding paedophile priests. Interesting no one is saying that it's just a few bad apples and the Church does not have any responsibility as the Bible prohibits such acts. We all agree that the Catholic Church has a big problem, and it needs to be sorted out BY the church. The radical Islam problem is a problem of Islam just on a much bigger scale than Catholic kiddie fiddlers and it needs to be sorted out by Islam without being defensive and call all and sundry Racist, bigots,,islamophobes. Admit the problem exists and then deal with it.

 

[love_the_life]

Denouncement appears to be somewhat of a theme, so as a newly minted Australian I should probably take this opportunity to denounce this and the various other jingoistic babble above.

If you take (say) an "average" US Christian and an "average" Nigerian Christian and introduce them to one another, chances are they're not going to look at each other and thing "Hey, a fellow Christian!" And guess what, that's pretty much the way it works with "us Muslims". It's not like you just stick an average Afghani, an average Somalian, and an average Indonesian in a room and they do a secret handshake or kneeling ritual and go about planning global domination. We just do not identify with one another in that way. So as long as you keep invoking the above "us and them" rhetoric, you're doomed to keep mumbling irrelevant nonsense into the ether.

Ask my youngest daughter about Brussels and the conversation will run something along the following.

"So what did you think of the Brussels terrorist attacks?"
"Like, awful. Duh. What else is there to say?"

Those of you insisting she should be an ambassador for an extremely heterogeneous group of 1.X billion people are, quite frankly, insane.

Guess what? Your "average Muslim" spends very little time thinking about local politics, global politics, other religions, or even their own religion, and most of their time thinking about falling in love, starting a family, or getting their family through the next years and decades. Much I like imagine is true of the average Christian or atheist. When they're not wasting everyone's time on amateur attempts at religious anthropology, anyway.

Spot on, Abdul_A350. Nothing like lumping a whole lot of people together and tarring them with the same brush, as they say. I have not got involved in this thread as it has moved so far off the original post and has become a political band standing exercise.This is not what I joined AFF for. Said my bit, out of this thread.

 

[marki]

Yes politics effects everyone and it effects travel. Especially to countries where the boarders are porous i.e. Europe.

I would like the post to concentrate a little more on travel and a little less on religion. I understand the topics are sometimes intertwined inevitably.

 

[JohnK]

Some say the radicals are 10-15%.

The number quoted in the Youtube video posted earlier in this thread is 15%-25%. Some say it is higher.

How do you tell the difference between a normal muslim and a radical muslim when they both attend the same mosques?

 

[Quickstatus]

The number quoted in the Youtube video posted earlier in this thread is 15%-25%. Some say it is higher.

How do you tell the difference between a normal muslim and a radical muslim when they both attend the same mosques?

There were several reasons why the US and south Vietnamese lost the Vietnam war:
The Vietcong was hidden among the passive Vietnamese population. Many were sheltered by the same. You could not tell the difference.
The war was unpopular back in the US many anti war protesters vilifying the US troops
The US were not as motivated as the Vietcong. a war 8000 miles away is difficult to prosecute when politically it was not popular.

Sounds similar?.
Most Muslims are peaceful and think terrorism is abhorrent but the % that are radical will be hiding in plain view and it would be naive to suggest that they are not being sheltered by some sympathisers who on the outside are peaceful.

 

[drron]

What you say Abdul is obviously correct.Unfortunately it is also correct that there is a problem with radical Islam.This for example-
Arrest after Glasgow shopkeeper Asad Shah dies in attack - BBC News

I am not attacking all Islam or trying to tar all muslims with the extremist brush but unless the problem is admitted with Islamists the future is not looking great.
And by the way I do work with many muslims.Even friends on facebook with some who are young colleagues.My last intern was muslim and probably the best intern I have ever worked with.She had an interesting story with the family leaving Sri Lanka due to persecution and first moving to Malaysia then Indonesia before migrating to Australia where she faces less discrimination than in those muslim countries.
We aren't all the rednecks many here think we are.

 

[marki]

The number quoted in the Youtube video posted earlier in this thread is 15%-25%. Some say it is higher.

How do you tell the difference between a normal muslim and a radical muslim when they both attend the same mosques?

By their actions, but by then it may be to late. It's certainly not written on the forehead.

Germany: 300+ migrant sex attacks in January alone, youngest victims are 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 years old.

http://10news.dk/?p=2442

Please be vigilant!

 

[marki]

Video from Berlin: “What happened in Cologne, that’s nothing, that happens here every day”
FEBRUARY 23, 2016 , BY NICOLAI SENNELS 7 COMMENTS ON VIDEO FROM BERLIN: “WHAT HAPPENED IN COLOGNE, THAT’S NOTHING, THAT HAPPENS HERE EVERY DAY” 1630
One of the world’s most orderly societies descending into chaos. Crimes are happening on open street and not enough police to handle it. Criminals taking over whole parts of Germany’s capital.


http://10news.dk/?p=2468

This is eye opening st

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Video from Berlin: “What happened in Cologne, that’s nothing, that happens here every day”
FEBRUARY 23, 2016 , BY NICOLAI SENNELS 7 COMMENTS ON VIDEO FROM BERLIN: “WHAT HAPPENED IN COLOGNE, THAT’S NOTHING, THAT HAPPENS HERE EVERY DAY” 1630
One of the world’s most orderly societies descending into chaos. Crimes are happening on open street and not enough police to handle it. Criminals taking over whole parts of Germany’s capital.


Video from Berlin: “What happened in Cologne, that’s nothing, that happens here every day” | 10News.dk

This is eye opening st

211 right wing germans arrested after they trash muslim neighbourhood - Germany: Hooligans smash Muslim neighbourhood as reaction to Muslim mass sexual assaults | 10News.dk

Many of the 211 had criminal records for violence.

 

[drron]

An encouraging report that at one mosque in Brussels after Friday prayers the Imam denounced ISIS and then they all marched shouting "Long Live Belgium".
It is in the Thai papers but not mentioned on google or Western media as far as I can see.

 

[junbugging]

abdulA350, I wasn't able to send you a private message.

Are you the Abdul from the 本町 cigar bar who lectures at 神大？

 

[Franky]

An encouraging report that at one mosque in Brussels after Friday prayers the Imam denounced ISIS and then they all marched shouting "Long Live Belgium".
It is in the Thai papers but not mentioned on google or Western media as far as I can see.

On the other hand, there were ten mosques where the opposite occurred...

 

[marki]

Foreign Correspondent tomorrow ABC TV and iView time 9:30 pm Cologne attacks looked interesting.

 

[marki]

Tourists Cut Back on Europe Trips After Bombings http://www.wsj.com/articles/tourists-cut-back-on-europe-trips-after-bombings-1459175983

Tourists have especially our a number "of Chinese travelers staying in Paris hotels dropped 3.1% in Decmber from a year earlier, according to the Paris Convention and Visitors Bureau, after having risen 46% over the first 10 months of the year.

More Hermes handbags ?

 

[marki]

Officials in Berlin are shocked at individual reports reaching bureaucrats on a daily basis of attacks against defenceless people.

In the town of Giessen, near Frankfurt, 15 women in one camp have filed complaints to local police of rape and other forms of sexual abuse.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...ct-over-rising-number-of-migrant-sex-assualts

SOARING rates of sexual abuse against women and children in German refugee camps has forced Angela Merkel's government to pledge over

OMG

 

[straitman]

Maybe it is time to get the thread back to the question posted at the beginning.

 

[JohnK]

Maybe it is time to get the thread back to the question posted at the beginning.

All of these reports are relevant in the decision making process?