SCs as opposed to Bonus SCs?

[Deleted member 29185]

I've noticed this topic creeping in on other threads. I think it needs its own thread TBH.

The question:
Is there a difference between QFF SCs and QFF Bonus SCs?

My take is the answer should be no. Other airlines just refer to "miles" and as such, they have terms like "qualifying miles" and "bonus miles", but both QF and VA have opted to define these differences by the terms "Status Credits" and "Frequent Flyer Points".

Therefore, IMHO, as the name suggests, a Status Credit is exactly that. It is a credit awarded due to a variety of means to achieve status. Most commonly, they are earned by flying and the class of flying however they are also earned in other ways. I think QF have a CC with some SCs attached, as well as numerous 50% and double SC offers and also the loyalty bonus.

The reality is though, they are simply a status credit which accumulate to achieve just one thing, status! They have no other value.

So why then, do we have FFers raising the issue of "bonus" SCs not counting (and I personally have suffered this QF lie)? If a status credit can not be used for status, then what's its purpose?

 

[sudoer]

So why then, do we have FFers raising the issue of "bonus" SCs not counting (and I personally have suffered this QF lie)? If a status credit can not be used for status, then what's its purpose?

Not sure whether this is just a rant or you're fielding genuine responses - but from the latest DSC offer T&C:

Bonus Status Credits earned from this offer do not count towards Loyalty Bonus or Platinum One Loyalty Bonus earn requirements.

This is the only distinction afaik. Also some airlines do not count status credits gained through bonuses/promotions when doing a status match - the current Delta promo is a good example.

 

[oz_mark]

I've noticed this topic creeping in on other threads. I think it needs its own thread TBH.

The question:
Is there a difference between QFF SCs and QFF Bonus SCs?

So, if you are asking, are all SC created equal, the answer is no.

All SC count toward Silver, Gold and Platinum earn and retain
All SC count toward lifetime qualifications

Not all SC count toward Platinum One
Not all SC count toward Loyalty Bonus
Not all SC count toward Platinum Bonus

In among that, you have SC earned by flying QF (counts to all), SC earned by flying Jetstar (counts to most, but not P1), SC earned by flying other OneWorld (counts to most, but not P1, and various bonus), and finally promotional SC (such as DSC, or 50% offers), which count to some things but not others.

 

[sudoer]

SC earned by flying other OneWorld (counts to most, but not P1, and various bonus)

Technically SC from Oneworld carriers does count to P1's 3600SC target, but 2700 needs to be on QF.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Certainly not a rant. What I'm thinking may be good is to track the change of SCs over time in a single thread. It's up to an airline as to how many SCs are earned per flight, but they are still SC's, so as far as I'm concerned, 50% and double status credits are normal SCs, not bonus ones as all the airline has done is varied how many they are offering for a particular flight but they remain a credit for the primary purpose of gaining (and retaining) status.

Status matches by other airlines is an entirely different kettle of fish and no airline is obliged to offer a status match but if they do, they can place as many conditions as they like on that match.

QF however, is the airline that determined the number of SCs it gives for a flight and if they so choose to peg a loyalty bonus to a certain number of SCs reached, it's disingenuous to welch on that but that is also just a side effect. QF have previously reneged on a status challenge with me, after the fact, by stating bonus SCs don't count (no Ts&Cs for a status challenge so the biggest challenge is mind reading what they think they want). That's rubbish. If they decide to offer double SCs for a flight that's fine, but they are still SCs earned by flying for the purpose of gaining status. To then renege on those SCs being used to reach status as per an offer, is simply wrong.

There has also been others noticing that their SC balance does not appear to be correct and upon query have been told lies, like JQ flights don't count when earned off a JQ plus fare. The next thing they'll be claiming is that these imaginary "bonus" SCs (which are in reality, normal SCs) don't count to lifetime status.

It would be just nice over time, to easily find these issues being reported in one just one thread.

 

[RichardMEL]

I
My take is the answer should be no. Other airlines just refer to "miles" and as such, they have terms like "qualifying miles" and "bonus miles", but both QF and VA have opted to define these differences by the terms "Status Credits" and "Frequent Flyer Points".

Yes. I see the point (no pun intended) however it's not entirely accurate (imho).

Airlines, increasingly, are using the qualifying points (or status credits) as a means to quantify you by spend. Internally QF will have all kinds of metrics based on your real spend that they know of (eg: value of QF tickets you have bought, approx value of partner tickets as measured through the partner SC earn etc). What they're now moving to is a model, more or less, of if you want the loyalty bonuses, then you actually need to earn them "bum in seat"(BIS) as it were than count bonuses to them..

The US airlines don't do this yet, but they do in a way.. eg: United will only count BIS miles towards milestones such as lifetime (million miler) status... So things like fare bonus qualifying miles(which count to status in a year) do not count towards lifetime. It's a similar thing.
eve just one thing, status! They have no other value.

I think increasingly all loyalty schemes will go this way more and more.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Yes. I see the point (no pun intended) however it's not entirely accurate (imho).

Quite true, it is only accurate as far as fairness is concerned. An airline, QF included, can and will do exactly as they please.

Airlines, increasingly, are using the qualifying points (or status credits) as a means to quantify you by spend.

There are plenty of ways to do that. By using SCs is simply a lazy way (or possibly the easiest way to do it with a limiting IT system perhaps) and for them to start divvying up the SCs means it becomes very easy for them to reduce the value of a SC by imposing conditions on some of them, sometimes without even advising us of those conditions.

United will only count BIS miles towards milestones such as lifetime (million miler) status...

Hence why I was thinking it's a good idea to track the SC swings and roundabouts via a single thread. I've already learnt via this thread. oz_marks post was quite informative and concise IMHO, which was further bolstered by sbor90's clarification.

 

[downgraded]

I think you can assume QF baselines and tracks customer "loyalty" independently of how they massage behaviour with bonus SCs etc.

 

[nutwood]

Great idea for a thread. My only concern is that it's going to be virtually impossible to make any sense out of how Qantas handles SC's.
I'm approaching the end of my year and my current total is 2750, Tally towards P1 is 2580 but they say that I need another 300 SC's on Qantas, so the tally there is 2400. Points earned towards platinum bonus are 2310.
Given that all my flying has been domestic and all on Qantas (apart from 140 SC's earned on Jetstar), I defy anyone to make sense of those numbers. Qantas certainly can't!
The Platinum bonus SC's are fascinating. 440 different? I suspect they haven't counted the Jetstar SC's, which would round the figures to 300 short. The 300 can't be bonuses because I haven't earned that many. It's not DSC's because I've earned a lot more of those. It's just a random number.
I haven't pursued it energetically because I have enough flights left this year to get me past 2400, regardless of how they total it. Then it'll all start again!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

My new qualifying year has just started, so I hope to accurately follow it as last year, I too could make no sense of how they calculated the tallies, however I do know that if we have a pretty good idea of which SCs are applied to which tally, we'll be in a far better position to identify "errors" on their part, which I have the feeling some of us may be experiencing.

 

[nutwood]

My new qualifying year has just started, so I hope to accurately follow it as last year, I too could make no sense of how they calculated the tallies, however I do know that if we have a pretty good idea of which SCs are applied to which tally, we'll be in a far better position to identify "errors" on their part, which I have the feeling some of us may be experiencing.

I think I've pretty much got it nailed down, however I don't think Qantas has! The reason why my totals are so weird is that every time they make a error at my cost, I object and get it fixed. Every time they make an error in my favour, I don't object. Recently I haven't been doing anything, as I could see that I'd pick up the Platinum bonus but wouldn't make it to P1, so the errors have been drifting back in.

 

[nutwood]

Encountered an interesting situation this morning. I've been gradually approaching the Platinum bonus. I was at 2310 a month ago and have taken six flex flights since then. I checked my account under status activity and all reference to the Platinum bonus has vanished. There's no tally, all gone!
I rang Qantas and was told that I had only earned 2090 points on Qantas flights so wasn't entitled to the bonus. I patiently explained that all flying was either on Qantas or Jetstar. Away they went to figure it out before coming back and explaining that the difference was due to DSC's not being counted towards the bonus.
It's an interesting point because up until a short time ago, my account was showing 2310 and encouraging me to earn 90 more SC's to achieve the bonus. If I had taken a status run to achieve those SC's, I would not be happy that, having achieved the goal, they re-calculated and moved the goal posts.
This means that not only are SC's and DSC's treated differently, you can't even rely on your account to give you accurate information as to where you stand.

 

[sudoer]

Away they went to figure it out before coming back and explaining that the difference was due to DSC's not being counted towards the bonus.

This is not entirely correct.

DSCs earned through the promotion earlier this year (February 2018) and previous promotions should count. Relevant T&C line:

Bonus Status Credits earned from this offer do not count towards Loyalty Bonus or Platinum One Loyalty Bonus earn requirements.

DSCs earned through the most recent promotion (August 2018) would not count. Relevant T&C line:

Bonus Status Credits earned from this offer do not count towards Loyalty Bonus, Platinum Bonus Reward, Platinum One Bonus Reward and Status Accelerator/Challenge earn requirements.

 

[nutwood]

This is not entirely correct.

DSCs earned through the promotion earlier this year (February 2018) and previous promotions should count. Relevant T&C line:



DSCs earned through the most recent promotion (August 2018) would not count. Relevant T&C line:

Thanks for that. Most interesting, as it sort of explains why DSC's were initially being added to my platinum bonus tally and then suddenly stopped. Mind you, all my DSC's so far have come from the February offer, so if they were following the T & C's, they should all count.
I won't pursue it at the moment as I've a few weeks left in my year and I've got fourteen flights booked over the next fortnight, plus a couple of previous Jetstar flights which haven't come through yet. Should just get me past 2400 without the help of DSC's. Good to have the ammunition though, if it does come to an argument.

 

[nutwood]

Encountered an interesting situation this morning. I've been gradually approaching the Platinum bonus. I was at 2310 a month ago and have taken six flex flights since then. I checked my account under status activity and all reference to the Platinum bonus has vanished. There's no tally, all gone!
I rang Qantas and was told that I had only earned 2090 points on Qantas flights so wasn't entitled to the bonus. I patiently explained that all flying was either on Qantas or Jetstar. Away they went to figure it out before coming back and explaining that the difference was due to DSC's not being counted towards the bonus.
It's an interesting point because up until a short time ago, my account was showing 2310 and encouraging me to earn 90 more SC's to achieve the bonus. If I had taken a status run to achieve those SC's, I would not be happy that, having achieved the goal, they re-calculated and moved the goal posts.
This means that not only are SC's and DSC's treated differently, you can't even rely on your account to give you accurate information as to where you stand.

Since I wrote the above there has been a development. Suddenly, on my account page, I got a message congratulating me for earning 2510 SC's and qualifying for the platinum bonus. I've no idea how the 2510 was calculated but it must have included DSC's in the mix. This would have been about a week after being told I was still some distance away. The confusion continues!

 

[Happy Trails]

Aside from the promotion-specific conditions, this one was slipped into the general QFF T&Cs, effective March 13th 2018 IIRC:

"Status Credit bonus earn promotions and Loyalty Bonus do not contribute towards the Platinum Bonus Reward."

Frequent Flyer Terms and Conditions | Qantas

 

[nutwood]

Aside from the promotion-specific conditions, this one was slipped into the general QFF T&Cs, effective March 13th 2018 IIRC:

"Status Credit bonus earn promotions and Loyalty Bonus do not contribute towards the Platinum Bonus Reward."

Frequent Flyer Terms and Conditions | Qantas

Interesting thought. I thought this might be the reason. Perhaps Qantas were actually being meticulously accurate? I investigated my DSC's prior to March 13 but they only total 90. Not enough to account for the disparity between the various tallies.
I'm starting to take a serious interest in my SC tally. To my surprise, a busy September has put me within coee of P1. 300 SC's short and the count resets end of September. With SC's owing and still flights to take, I should just get over the line.
Be sure I'm taking screen shots!

 

[nutwood]

This seems a bit of a lonely thread. Perhaps others could contribute their opinions, then I won't have to follow my own post?!
I had a bit of an opportunity today to analyse my FF year past. I renewed as of Oct 1st and a while later dribbled over the line to P1.
Looking back at my expired year, I can say that DSC's definitely do count towards P1 and LTG. They definitely do not count towards 500/1000/1500/2000 loyalty bonuses.
They generally do not count towards platinum bonus but on unpredictable occasions they may. They generally do count towards flights flown on Qantas (assuming all flights flown on Qantas) but on unpredictable occasions they may not.
Jetstar SC's seem to count for everything, but you may have to wait a while for them to appear, if ever, unless you chase them. Due to other inconsistencies, I've not been able to nail down whether Jetstar SC's effectively count towards the Qantas component required for P1.
Please note, these are observations based on actual counts of SC's. I've tried hard to pin down the inconsistencies to changes in T & C's but it can't be done. Definite conclusions are that if flying Jetstar, get a paper boarding pass and guard it well. If flying Qantas and the initial transfer of money happened in a DSC period, wait eight weeks and demand your extra SC's. As for the rest of it, keep your rabbits foot safe, throw the salt over your left shoulder and hope!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I lead a relatively busy life and I find that I just don't have time to keep a count on them, but in saying that, I have noticed enough oddities to believe there is something amiss. Whether it's amiss in my favour or theirs, I could not say. Perhaps it's even correct. If I had another lifetime to sit down with all their changing Ts&Cs to try to work out which applied to which, I may or may not be able to determine that.

All in all, how hard a scheme is to keep track of, also weighs into my decision as whether to bother with said scheme. IHG falls into the same category as far as I'm concerned. Both IHG and QFF are on my endangered list at the moment.

 

[RichardMEL]

Basically since March 13th, 2018 any SC earned other than fare paid/bum in seat SC will not qualify for loyalty bonuses, Platinum Reward at 2400 and the various P1 "rewards". This is how the T&C reads, and in practice, for me anyway, is how it has been applied.

I think there is confusion due to the March 13 change (and the Feb and onwards DSC promos having T&C reflecting this).

In essence it means that your PBR becomes much more difficult to attain. Indeed it could be possible to hit P1 status but not actually get the BR, which is bizarre but how it goes under the new reigime.

It seems very clear what the aim is ad the odd IT fail aside, it has been.. dare I saw.. consistently applied (at least in my case) since March.

YMMV