Ryanair forces South African customers to prove ID with Afrikaans test

[AisleSeat]

"The airline has been telling South African passport holders, including UK residents, that they will be turned away unless they complete the test, despite Afrikaans being only the third most-spoken language in the country, and its history of enforced use under apartheid."

Wow.

Ryanair uses Afrikaans test to verify South African nationality

DUBLIN/JOHANNESBURG - Ryanair is requiring South African passengers to prove their nationality before traveling by completing a test in Afrikaans,

townpress.co.za

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Can’t see this lasting long. This would seem a case of denied boarding by Ryanair as the passenger would meet the other requirements of EU261? ie holding valid travel documents and a confirmed reservation, but being bumped from the flight.

 

[Guvner]

That's bizarre. My Aunty has lived in SA for 35 years and does not speak Afrikaans.

 

[glasszon]

Wow, isn't this a case of discrimination to require a test only to people from a particular nation?

 

[Happy Dude]

Wow, isn't this a case of discrimination to require a test only to people from a particular nation?

Isn't that what a visa is though? Visa conditions are often different for people depending on where they're from.

I don't see why it's Ryanair's role to play Border Force.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Isn't that what a visa is though? Visa conditions are often different for people depending on where they're from.

I don't see why it's Ryanair's role to play Border Force.

Same role all airlines play… Ryanair will get fined if they bring someone in on false documents. Perhaps Ryanair has a particular problem with SA passport holders flying with them rather than legacy carriers? But would be interesting to see how other airlines handle it.

 

[Happy Dude]

Same role all airlines play… Ryanair will get fined if they bring someone in on false documents. Perhaps Ryanair has a particular problem with SA passport holders flying with them rather than legacy carriers? But would be interesting to see how other airlines handle it.

Yes the lack of any mention of other carriers makes it seem particularly suss.

 

[Guvner]

Same role all airlines play… Ryanair will get fined if they bring someone in on false documents. Perhaps Ryanair has a particular problem with SA passport holders flying with them rather than legacy carriers? But would be interesting to see how other airlines handle it.

Won't the pax still have to get through immigration, isn't it their role to check passport validity too?

 

[glasszon]

Isn't that what a visa is though? Visa conditions are often different for people depending on where they're from.

I don't see why it's Ryanair's role to play Border Force.

Your second sentence is what I am concerned about. You are right that visa by definition is discriminatory, but who gave Ryanair the right to perform an additional check above and beyond what the government mandated to a specific group of people?

For example, imagine the uproar if Ryanair decides they need to do a test to ensure people has a genuine need for wheelchair before giving them one.

 

[Pushka]

That's bizarre. My Aunty has lived in SA for 35 years and does not speak Afrikaans.

We have been with people in UK last weekend who live in Durban and Afrikaans is their first language. Think they are flying Ryan Air for a flight this week so they will be fine.

 

[Guvner]

So essentially people who speak Afrikaans will never use a false passport. Is that the message here?

 

[Happy Dude]

I suspect, as @MEL_Traveller has suggested, that Ryanair gets a chunk of pax on dodgy SA passports from dodgy Euro countries and have incurred fines, although that could only happen if they knowingly allowed it. This must be their way to obtain some evidence that they made some attempt to valid the pax's bona-fides. Check-in agents certainly have the right to identify pax by way of passports but I don't agree with the notion that they are qualified to establish the legitimacy, or otherwise, of the passport or how the holder obtained it. That's the role of immigration. And this way is so full of holes it isn't funny.

I had a friend at uni who, because of a Dutch grandparent he'd never met, obtained a Dutch passport even though he'd never been to Holland nor spoke any Dutch, and proceeded to travel through Europe freely. He'd have been stuffed in this situation. Though he did get a letter reminding him about his possible military service obligations. Made him sweat a bit until he passed the age cut off.

 

[Franky]

Your second sentence is what I am concerned about. You are right that visa by definition is discriminatory, but who gave Ryanair the right to perform an additional check above and beyond what the government mandated to a specific group of people?

For example, imagine the uproar if Ryanair decides they need to do a test to ensure people has a genuine need for wheelchair before giving them one.

After what I saw at LAX a week ago, I can say that a test for that is definitely needed…

 

[dajop]

So does that now mean every fake South African passport that gets sold, now gets a set of Ryanair test answers thrown in free of charge? Or will they double the price if you need the answers to go with it?

 

[Mattg]

This is wrong on many levels. I can't believe someone at Ryanair thought this would be appropriate.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I suspect, as @MEL_Traveller has suggested, that Ryanair gets a chunk of pax on dodgy SA passports from dodgy Euro countries and have incurred fines, although that could only happen if they knowingly allowed it. This must be their way to obtain some evidence that they made some attempt to valid the pax's bona-fides. Check-in agents certainly have the right to identify pax by way of passports but I don't agree with the notion that they are qualified to establish the legitimacy, or otherwise, of the passport or how the holder obtained it. That's the role of immigration. And this way is so full of holes it isn't funny.

I had a friend at uni who, because of a Dutch grandparent he'd never met, obtained a Dutch passport even though he'd never been to Holland nor spoke any Dutch, and proceeded to travel through Europe freely. He'd have been stuffed in this situation. Though he did get a letter reminding him about his possible military service obligations. Made him sweat a bit until he passed the age cut off.

I believe the airline is fined - or potentially liable to be fined - even if they didn’t suspect the bona fides. I believe the offence is to bring someone to the border who is subsequently refused due to false documents, or other ineligibility.

Truck drivers are fined if they bring in illegal immigrants, even if the immigrant managed to stowaway, unknown to the driver. Which is why transport companies have all sorts of locks and tags in place to make sure that hasn’t happened.

Similarly airlines were refusing travel if covid documents weren’t in order, or are refusing to carry pax if there is passport damage for flights to indonesia - even though it is indonesia border force that would make the ultimate decision to allow entry.

 

[jpp42]

Just this past Friday I was witness to a similar situation where airline staff were having to make judgement calls about the legitimacy of documents - a party of 3 in front of me in the SIA business class check-in queue in Changi, Singapore was being refused travel to Kolkata due to some sort of document deficiency. I understood it to be the head passenger hadn't renewed (registered?) his Overseas Citizen of India visa in his UK passport properly. The main point of discussion was the agent contended there were special rules for Kolkata - the agent was suggesting to reroute him to a different Indian port - but the passenger said Indian immigration laws are the same country-wide. I am not sure what the real answer is, but the agent claimed to have confirmed this directly with the CCU station chief and insisted the pax would be refused entry if he traveled with the current documents. The passenger offered to indemnify the airline against the cost of 3x return J tickets to Singapore if they were refused entry, but this offer wasn't helpful as the agent explained the bigger risk was heavy fines against the airline. Seems like a bad system to put the check in agents in the position of border cop, but clearly that is in fact what's being done.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Been that way for a long time… once the passenger arrives they can claim asylum. Preventing them getting there is preferable.

 

[moa999]

This is wrong on many levels. I can't believe someone at Ryanair thought this would be appropriate.

A long thread on this on airliners.net.

But appears there is a problem with fake passports from genuine sources (corruption in SA) being issued to people from a few South Asian countries, so it's seemingly a fairly targeted policy by RyanAir.

Genuine SA citizens who are Indian or Colored (two of the four defined races in SA) are fairly likely to speak Afrikaans to some degree.

Specific parts of SA have a very high Indian/Asian population (eg Durban at about 25%)