RTW vs Return tickets

[Harpoon]

I am checking out fares for a holiday in feb/mar 09 (ski trip!) either in europe or us/canada.

According to QF booking website:

- MEL-LAX in F is ~$21k return.
- MEL-LHR in F is ~$15k return.
- 4 continent in F oneworld explorer is ~$16.7k.

So you'd have to be barking mad if travelling kangaroo route or pacific in F and not get a OWE ticket and add a destination or 3...

Or am I missing something?

Why can a person go MEL-LAX-JFK-LHR-HKG-MEL in F for less than a pacific return ticket in F. I don't quite get it - is it purely based on loads and seat availability?

Is there some catch with a RTW ticket that I'm missing?

Also, J and F class MEL-LHR seem to be almost the same price. I'm guessing that feb/mar must not be very popular for F travel on that route?

 

[dajop]

MEL-LAX in F is ~$21k return.

Or you could go MEL-HKG-LAX-MEL (plus a few internal US flights) on Circle Pacific in First for $12.1K +++. Throw in east coast US to the equation and it goes to $14.5K +++.

People pay premium for direct flights, and if employers are playing round the worlds and even circle pacifics are often considered "junkets" despite being cheaper, whereas direct flights are not. (noting that MEL-LAX via HKG turns a 14 hour journey into a 23 hour journey, but MEL-JFK via HKG only turns a 21 hour trip to 27 hours)

 

[NM]

So you'd have to be barking mad if travelling kangaroo route or pacific in F and not get a OWE ticket and add a destination or 3...

Or am I missing something?

Except that a significant number of people travelling in First Class place a significant value on their time and do not want to go the long way when a direct flight is more convenient and gets them to where they need to be in a timely manner.

Why can a person go MEL-LAX-JFK-LHR-HKG-MEL in F for less than a pacific return ticket in F. I don't quite get it - is it purely based on loads and seat availability?

The F fare you quote is completely unrestricted. The ATW fare books into a fare basis called A, which has restricted availability. For example, finding A availability on MEL-LAX on an A380 is not easy at the present time.

Is there some catch with a RTW ticket that I'm missing?

Yes, you have travel around the world! And for many F passengers, that is not where they want to go.

 

[wandering_fred]

I am checking out fares for a holiday in feb/mar 09 (ski trip!) either in europe or us/canada.
According to QF booking website:
- MEL-LAX in F is ~$21k return.
- MEL-LHR in F is ~$15k return.
- 4 continent in F oneworld explorer is ~$16.7k.
So you'd have to be barking mad if travelling kangaroo route or pacific in F and not get a OWE ticket and add a destination or 3...
Or am I missing something?

Yes
The same RTW ticket is actually a fair bit less expensive if bought in Manila or Jakarta :mrgreen: instead of Sydney or Melbourne.
downside is that some flight segments are very difficult to find business or first class seat availability in the required fare buckets. SYD-JNB and SYD-SCL perhaps being the most notorious.
Check the stickies at the OneWorld section of flyertalk.com.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[serfty]

Going by the number of sales for February, it seems to be low season ex Oz.

Note the AONEx and DONEx fares book into A and D class respectively.

These are restricted discount fares and availability is not always allocated, A certainly is scarcer than D.

Of course, the earlier you book, the more availability you will find.

Here's a look at availability for SYD-LAX on QF11 (A388) and QF107 (744) for the last Friday of each month for the next year:

• Oct31:
  • QF011: R8 F4 A0 J9 C6 D0 I0 W7 T0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X0 E0
  • QF107: R0 F0 A0 J9 C9 D2 I0 B9 H9 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0 X0 E0
• Nov28:
  • QF011: R9 F9 A0 J9 C9 D9 I0 W0 T0 B9 H0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0 X0 E0
  • QF107: R0 F3 A2 J9 C9 D0 I0 B9 H0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0 X0 E0
• Dec26:
  • QF011: R0 F0 A0 J9 C9 D0 I0 W0 T0 B7 H0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0 X0 E0
  • QF107: R0 F0 A0 J9 C9 D3 I0 B9 H0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0 X0 E0
• Jan30:
  • QF011: R9 F4 A0 J9 C9 D9 I0 W9 T0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X3 E0
  • QF107: R0 F5 A2 J9 C9 D6 I0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X0 E0
• Feb27:
  • QF011: R9 F5 A0 J9 C9 D9 I0 W9 T0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X0 E0
  • QF107: R0 F6 A5 J9 C9 D9 I0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X0 E0
• Mar 27:
  • QF011: R9 F5 A0 J9 C9 D9 I0 W9 T4 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X0 E0
  • QF107: R0 F5 A4 J9 C9 D9 I0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X0 E0
• Apr24:
  • QF011: R9 F9 A0 J9 C9 D9 I0 W9 T6 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X0 E0
  • QF107: R0 F4 A4 J9 C9 D9 I0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X3 E0
• May29:
  • QF011: R9 F9 A0 J9 C9 D9 I0 W9 T0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X8 E0
  • QF107: R0 F8 A6 J9 C9 D9 I0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X3 E0
• Jun26:
  • QF011: R9 F9 A0 J9 C9 D9 I0 W9 T0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X0 E0
  • QF107: R0 F7 A5 J9 C9 D9 I0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q1 O0 X0 E0
• Jul31:
  • QF011: R9 F9 A0 J9 C9 D9 I0 W9 T0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X3 E0
  • QF107: R0 F9 A8 J9 C9 D9 I0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X0 E0
• Aug28:
  • QF011: R9 F8 A0 J9 C9 D9 I0 W9 T0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X3 E0
  • QF107: R0 F7 A4 J9 C9 D8 I0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X0 E0
• Sep25:
  • QF011: R9 F8 A0 J9 C9 D9 I0 W9 T0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X2 E0
  • QF107: R0 F6 A2 J9 C9 D2 I0 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 X0 E0

Note that Qantas are making No A class available on the A388 for any of these flights.

 

[Keith009]

Bear in mind that with RTWs, you also have to consider other costs like accomodation in each stop, food, car hire etc. Since you'd tend to make more stops on a RTW, in all likelihood you'd end up spending more than a simple return.

Not that it's ever stopped me.

 

[simongr]

Also if travelling with kids - fewer stops are better

 

[MelUser]

Yes, with a little one there is the extra case or two, the pram/stroller, car seat, bassinet if they're young enough - the list goes on and there's only so much that will fit on a trolley when you collect your bags at the other end!

 

[Febs]

Seat availability is the killer. I always try to make my trips to LAX DONE4's (with the internal US flights we do, DONE4's work out around $1,000 cheaper on average), but usually have to fly via somewhere like BNE (SYD-LAX in D is hard to get at the best of times), or leave a day early. For me, this isn't always a big problem...but for people with families or people only taking a short trip, you can see how the direct flights would make life easier.

If you're booking far enough out, and you don't mind potentially taking a short detour, by all means go for it - xONEx's can be a bargain.

Cheers,
- Febs.

 

[Dave Noble]

I am checking out fares for a holiday in feb/mar 09 (ski trip!) either in europe or us/canada.

According to QF booking website:

- MEL-LAX in F is ~$21k return.
- MEL-LHR in F is ~$15k return.
- 4 continent in F oneworld explorer is ~$16.7k.

So you'd have to be barking mad if travelling kangaroo route or pacific in F and not get a OWE ticket and add a destination or 3...

Or am I missing something?

If wanting to go to the UK, it is quite a bit longer to go via US plus an ATW ticket requires that you stay away for a minimum of 10 days plus an ATW ticket is booked in A rather than F so poorer availabilty

If just going to LAX, the journey time back going via Europe would be horrendous compared to non-stop ( over 16,000 miles vs 7921 ) . Not many people are going to want to double the journey distance plus have a minimum of 2 connections

If doing a trip that lasts a cpl of weeks or more *and* if wanting to go other places when away then an ATW is useful but I know a lot of people taking straight returns to just get there and back quickly

Dave

 

[dajop]

If doing a trip that lasts a cpl of weeks or more *and* if wanting to go other places when away then an ATW is useful but I know a lot of people taking straight returns to just get there and back quickly

This where I think for US itineraries Circle Pacifics are useful. Compared to ATW fares they don't add a huge amount of time (for eg to get to LAX from MEL on a DCIRC (or ACIRC)you need to leave at midnight instead of 10:30am), yet can be very cost effective. I guess that's why QF increased these fares substantially this year - probably to many using these instead of more expensive LAX return fares.

Nearly all of our visitors to Australia from our US head office have come here via Tokyo or Hongkong on a Circle Pacific - as they are substantially cheaper than equivalent return fare (and I know on DCIRC they can do the necessary (4 hour) US domestic sectors in F, whereas using the point to point fare they travel in coach).

 

[Dave Noble]

This where I think for US itineraries Circle Pacifics are useful. Compared to ATW fares they don't add a huge amount of time (for eg to get to LAX from MEL on a DCIRC (or ACIRC)you need to leave at midnight instead of 10:30am), yet can be very cost effective. I guess that's why QF increased these fares substantially this year - probably to many using these instead of more expensive LAX return fares.

Nearly all of our visitors to Australia from our US head office have come here via Tokyo or Hongkong on a Circle Pacific - as they are substantially cheaper than equivalent return fare (and I know on DCIRC they can do the necessary (4 hour) US domestic sectors in F, whereas using the point to point fare they travel in coach).

Most people at the company I work for use straight r/t tickets since, with corporate discount, they are normally about the same price as a DCIR22 but without the drawbacks of a circle trip

On point to point discounted business returns, the domestic USA flights book in D if using a QF codeshare and in A if using the AA flight number.

Dave

 

[dajop]

Most people at the company I work for use straight r/t tickets since, with corporate discount, they are normally about the same price as a DCIR22 but without the drawbacks of a circle trip

On point to point discounted business returns, the domestic USA flights book in D if using a QF codeshare and in A if using the AA flight number.

Dave

ex-AUS this is indeed the case (corp discount & D/A travel). However ex-USA our staff indicated that they need to do Y on AA sectors, and the pricing was (not sure if it still is) about 1/3rd less on DCIRC than the direct return. But I don't think Australia is high on the priority list for corp discounts, whereas we have good discount ("route deal") to Head office.

 

[serfty]

There is no minimum stay for travel originating South West Pacific/Hong Kong/Japan in First and Business class on AONEx/DONEx.

It's 5 days for A/DCIRnn and A/DASnn is 3 days. 5 days for LASnn.

 

[Dave Noble]

ex-AUS this is indeed the case (corp discount & D/A travel). However ex-USA our staff indicated that they need to do Y on AA sectors, and the pricing was (not sure if it still is) about 1/3rd less on DCIRC than the direct return. But I don't think Australia is high on the priority list for corp discounts, whereas we have good discount ("route deal") to Head office.

That would seem that they are getting 2 fares; one to the west coast and one onwards. normal business fares, even ex US iirc, provide for premium travel for the domestic leg

Dave

 

[Evan]

Minimum stay: 10 days. Maximum stay: 12 months. (Except if originating from Southwest Pacific where there is no minimum stay for First and Business Class fares but 10 days minimum stay for Economy fares.)

10 days minimum... unless you happen to originate from SWP and its a A or D type ticket
So there is ways around the 10 day minimum.

Its the same way before i become WP i used to fly MEL-PER-SIN for example to get the required SC, now i am WP and will be again this year suddenly i seem to not mind MEL-SIN direct. And i guess for F most people just need to be over and back and thats it.

E

 

[thegurio]

Are all these conditions i.e. 10 day min stay, 5 day min stay etc. available on the one world site or are they elsewhere? Im trying to figure out which kind of fare would be best for us next year and would love to nut these differences out for myself rather than boring you lot with mind-numbing questions that i can easily figure out myself.

 

[serfty]

Are all these conditions i.e. 10 day min stay, 5 day min stay etc. available on the one world site or are they elsewhere? ...

Start here:

• oneworld - Air Travel Options

From there you can go various places. Find the links for each product and you'll generally see "Fare Estimate". Click that then you jump to a place where just underneath the "Country of Sale" selection, you'll see a link to a .pdf of the particular product's rules.

Here's four of them:

• oneworld Explorer rule sheet (100kb, PDF)
• Global Explorer rule sheet (60kb, PDF)
• oneworld Circle Pacific rule sheet (76kb, PDF)
• oneworld Circle Asia & South West Pacific rule sheet (53kb, PDF)