Reclining [Moving to an empty seat with another behind to do so]

[legroom]

We studied proxemic behaviour at Uni. It varies significantly with culture. Hence international travel becomes stressful when people put different values on space.

Well, I learned a new word today !

My six undergrad and seven postgrad years failed me utterly.

 

[Pushka]

Well, I learned a new word today !

My six undergrad and seven postgrad years failed me utterly.

Ah well. Unless you completed Psychology you are forgiven.

 

[legroom]

Ah well. Unless you completed Psychology you are forgiven.

I used to sneak into one of the empty lecture rooms in Psychology to have lunch.

Obviously, that didn't count for much.

I remember the name Skinner but why I forgot !

 

[Pushka]

Skinner is pretty high up there in rat studies. Operant conditioning etc.

We had to train a rat to press a bar to receive food. My female partner and I had success in the first session.

My then boyfriend (and now husband) and his friend didn't have much luck. Finally the rat went near the bar so they pressed the button to reward it with food. Well, something went wrong and the bar gave the rat a shock. The rat came flying out of the cage with the jolt and landed on the floor. Dead. They tried external "heart massage" (his friends parents were both GP's). I believe I was convulsive with laughter.

 

[Kieran2274]

Skinner is pretty high up there in rat studies. Operant conditioning etc.

We had to train a rat to press a bar to receive food. My female partner and I had success in the first session.

My then boyfriend (and now husband) and his friend didn't have much luck. Finally the rat went near the bar so they pressed the button to reward it with food. Well, something went wrong and the bar gave the rat a shock. The rat came flying out of the cage with the jolt and landed on the floor. Dead. They tried external "heart massage" (his friends parents were both GP's). I believe I was convulsive with laughter.

I love B.F. Skinner's work on operant conditioning - although don't forget he used pigeons too. Frequent Flyer schemes owe some credit to Skinner - they too often make use of variable ratio reinforcement (op-upgrades, and other unforecastable benefits) to encourage behaviour reinforcement (maintaining or increasing status level - or 'fear' of losing said levels lol)

 

[prozac]

Re: Reclining

5A's inconvenience (loss of shadow) is less than 6C's (loss of legroom).

If you have to recline, it's the lesser of the two evils IMO.

It's an imperfect (Y) world.

Agreed. I'd recline but giving consideration to passenger behind. It really isn't necessary to recline fully just because the seat will.

I see 5b as no man's land to take and the buffer between the occupant of 5c and myself. It creates a comfortable separation. Become a "settler" in this region and you have created "disputed territory" in my eyes. I do after all have equal right (dibs) to this seat and consider it to be polite to not occupy it. If you do so it has become an invasion. I would prefer we share the space.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Reclining

I see 5b as no man's land to take and the buffer between the occupant of 5c and myself. It creates a comfortable separation. Become a "settler" in this region and you have created "disputed territory" in my eyes. I do after all have equal right (dibs) to this seat and consider it to be polite to not occupy it. If you do so it has become an invasion. I would prefer we share the space.

If the middle seat is vacant I use the meal tray of the middle seat especially if I am in bulkhead.

No prizes for guessing why!

 

[prozac]

Re: Reclining

I see some ambiguity in my post John. Of-course I meant it is no-man's land and NOT to be taken. I like the tray idea.

 

[suze2000]

there is a difference between a controlled and uncontrolled encounter.

if the flight is full and you sit next to someone that is different to the flight being empty and a total stranger proactively moving to sit next to you, ignoring an empty seat in between.

it comes down to choice and no choice. a man choosing to sit next to a girl on an otherwise empty train carriage is completely different to a man sitting next to a girl if that is the only seat available. on the latter there is little or no question of motive.

Thank you for attempting to explain what I obviously failed to make clear in my post. I'm perfectly fine with strangers sitting next to me if there's no other space available (or for that matter if every second seat is taken up and the seat he chooses happens to be next to mine). I do not walk around fearing every contact with humans.

 

[legroom]

I do understand your views.

And that applies to males too, not just females.

Thank you for attempting to explain what I obviously failed to make clear in my post. I'm perfectly fine with strangers sitting next to me if there's no other space available (or for that matter if every second seat is taken up and the seat he chooses happens to be next to mine). I do not walk around fearing every contact with humans.

 

[suze2000]

I do understand your views.

And that applies to males too, not just females.

You are right of course, it was a generic he I was using. And if I was a bloke I would still think it odd because of the personal space issue.

 

[prozac]

Thank you for attempting to explain what I obviously failed to make clear in my post. I'm perfectly fine with strangers sitting next to me if there's no other space available (or for that matter if every second seat is taken up and the seat he chooses happens to be next to mine). I do not walk around fearing every contact with humans.

Fact is you have paid for seat 5a and someone else 5c. You each have a contract with the airline to occupy that particular seat and this is a completely different situation to say train travel where your contract is to occupy a train carriage. If 5c decides to move into 5b it should only be with full agreement of 5a. If I am sitting for 12 hrs in an a/c seat I want the right of veto.

It's nice to read your very accepting liberal views but you will not be welcome next to me without invitation.

 

[Pushka]

It's nice to read your very accepting liberal views but you will not be welcome next to me without invitation.

You and suze are actually in agreement over this issue.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Fact is you have paid for seat 5a and someone else 5c. You each have a contract with the airline to occupy that particular seat and this is a completely different situation to say train travel where your contract is to occupy a train carriage. If 5c decides to move into 5b it should only be with full agreement of 5a. If I am sitting for 12 hrs in an a/c seat I want the right of veto.

It's nice to read your very accepting liberal views but you will not be welcome next to me without invitation.

no contract with the airline to occupy a particular seat. Particular cabin yes, but not a particular seat. This is made clear in the terms and conditions that the airline can change your seat for operational reasons. The reverse is implied into the contract - just as they are free to move you, so are you free to request a move 9with the exception of seats which attract a premium).

If a pax was lucky enough to snag a DEFG 4 block there is no contractual reason why another passenger could not move to the D or G seat for more room.

(the above is ignoring the 'etiquette' considerations)

 

[suze2000]

You and suze are actually in agreement over this issue.

Yes, I think something's being lost along the way here. My original post was about how I would NOT be happy if someone moved in right next to me (amd my reasons), which I was condemned for! Because I was upset that people couldn't see my POV and I know better than to post in anger, I sat back for a couple of days before posting again. So in my mind I was follwoing a thread within a thread starting from my first post, but I think Prozac must have missed that. My bad - I should have made my post clearer. Thanks Pushka.

 

[prozac]

You and suze are actually in agreement over this issue.

I see now you are right Pushka. Please accept my apology suze. I am sure now that suze would ask first, Everyone else is still unwelcome.

 

[suze2000]

Prozac, there's no way that I would move to the middle seat. The whole point of my first post is that I consider it an invasion of personal space, and likely to put the other person on edge.

 

[Moody]

Prozac, there's no way that I would move to the middle seat. The whole point of my first post is that I consider it an invasion of personal space, and likely to put the other person on edge.

I think, in general, that people need to chill. Scoring an empty seat beside you (whether allegedly due to status or luck or a sympathetic check-in agent) is obviously a welcome outcome, but it doesn't form part of your personal space and you have no legal right to it.

What is desirable at all times is that any seat change is negotiated between the parties involved. If I was in 5C (would never be in 5A) and my window-mate asked to move to 5B so that they could recline into an empty seat behind them and catch some shut-eye then I would have no problem with that. Whereas if 5A stayed in their seat but raised their armrest so they could use 5B whilst clipping their toenails, I would have some terse words with them.

In the end if you approach the issue in an adversarial way I think the outcomes will be the poorer for it.