Rebooked on JQ - experiences?

Status
Not open for further replies.

onemore

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Posts
357
Slightly off topic but along the same lines. Last week I posted where Qantas was advertising fares from Sydney to Manila for $755 of course for certain dates, being May 5th until June 15th, when I inquired as to why none of these fares were available I was told they had sold out, so hence the higher fares.
Yesterday the same fares appeared and once again I went searching but once again these fares didn't exist and once again I was told they had sold out and gone to the higher fare of $800 plus.

During the conversation I was told that there is a lower price fare via Singapore connecting with Jetstar to Manila I queried the fact that with that connection I would be subject to the coughstar policy of baggage, seat selection and meals, to which I questioned as I would have to pay for the extras, don't worry the reply was I would still get the baggage allowance, this actually happened folks.

To rub salt into the already bleeding wound I was told that if I didn't like that option there is another connection with Philippine airlines to Manila from Singapore, but hang on Philippines airlines isn't part of Oneworld or with anything for that matter.

Reminds me of the song from Joe South "The games people play".

However I don't wish to be part of this game that Qantas is playing, I just don't get it.
 

Lucky_man

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Posts
159
It seems the real issue is not providing an option. If I had a Qaslink or QF flight and it was cancelled and the next available flight was JQ - I'd expect them to offer it - but not insist on it. To not offer it might be to upset my schedule for the heinous indignity of a middle seat and a forced fast for which my body would be grateful.
Of course if a craft that was scheduled to have 150 Pax onboard was pulled it could be impossibly long to deal with each re-booking separately.
 

Renato1

Established Member
Joined
May 1, 2015
Posts
1,930
If it were me, I'd be demanding to talk at someone senior at Qantas, getting their name and position, advising him or her that you want a partial refund, else that you would be lodging a complaint with the ACCC for your opinion that Qantas is abusing its market power. If not resolved, write to the ACCC lodging a formal complaint and citing the name and position of the person at Qantas to whom you spoke.
Regards,
Renato

P.S. - I've only flown Jetstar on one return trip, but I walked down the back of the plane and asked for water, and they gave me as many glasses as I wanted for free.
 

Oneworldplus2

Established Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Posts
3,016
Unless you needed to be there tonight I wouldn't have accepted the flight offered.

I would have done this as well. As others have said, it looks like QF is throwing their weight around and a JQ flight should be an 'option', not 'forced' upon the customer.
 

mannej

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Posts
9,885
If it were me, I'd be demanding to talk at someone senior at Qantas, getting their name and position, advising him or her that you want a partial refund, else that you would be lodging a complaint with the ACCC for your opinion that Qantas is abusing its market power. If not resolved, write to the ACCC lodging a formal complaint and citing the name and position of the person at Qantas to whom you spoke.
Regards,
Renato

P.S. - I've only flown Jetstar on one return trip, but I walked down the back of the plane and asked for water, and they gave me as many glasses as I wanted for free.

The ACCC would refer you to the Airline Consumer Advocate - throwing the ACCC around is akin to someone complaining to a council throwing in the line I am a ratepayer...
 

OATEK

Established Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Posts
4,753
The ACCC would refer you to the Airline Consumer Advocate - throwing the ACCC around is akin to someone complaining to a council throwing in the line I am a ratepayer...
While that is true for individual claims, asking why they are not addressing bait and switch type tactics with the airlines (giving your own example) and copying in your local Federal member does put them under some pressure to look at this type of problem in the current climate.
 

blackcat20

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
12,525
I don't think you can cry "bait and switch" when an aircraft goes US and they put you on the next available flight, which happens to be JQ. They've kept up their end of the deal which is getting you from A to B.
 
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Posts
468
The ACCC would refer you to the Airline Consumer Advocate - throwing the ACCC around is akin to someone complaining to a council throwing in the line I am a ratepayer...

I seem to remember being told that any complaint to an industry ombudsman i.e ACA results in a several thousand dollar bill to the company against which the complaint was made. Hence the real reason companies try very hard to prevent this from happening. But I may be misinformed.
 

Lucky_man

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Posts
159
It is important to understand that for companies the size of QF there is a very different disposition to legal matters and threats of pursuing certain courses of action. For QF it is not a matter of whether they can avoid going to court - its a matter of how many matters in court they are dealing with at any one time. The person you waive the 'threat' at won't be the one that has to deal with it if it happens and the person who has to deal with it owes his job to QF having to deal with such things (ie that's what he is employed to do). It's not like most of the people here who would be avoiding any sort of legal action because it matters to them personally.
My experience is if you send a letter of demand to the secretary and send it registered post it will get referred to some one with the authority to make it right. And generally they will make it right so long as the demand is reasonable. The content and quality of the letter of demand and any attempt to raise the severity or gravity with dire consequences of non compliance wont make any difference at this level.

Things have changed with QF customer care. I had a call from QF to me asking if there was anything they could help with because I had cancelled some flights and hadn't flown with them. I explained the issue I was having with FC and an hour later I had a call from FC saying that they would resolve the issue the way I wanted it to be resolved - and in true FC style told me they were unhappy about it. That was 9 years ago. Far cry from today.
 

mannej

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Posts
9,885
I don't think you can cry "bait and switch" when an aircraft goes US and they put you on the next available flight, which happens to be JQ. They've kept up their end of the deal which is getting you from A to B.

But Qantas used (I am not sure if they still do) to advertise that on every Qantas Flight, you get food, luggage, entertainment etc. If QF were truly to hold their end of the deal, the OP would have received food as well.
 
Sponsored Post

This is an example of a Sponsored Post, one of the many ways you can advertise on the Australian Frequent Flyer.

Other options include banner advertisements on our content and forum pages or our newsletter. You can also purchase an audio message on our podcast - or if you just want to try it out, you can sponsor a thread.

If you'd prefer not to see any advertisements (including these sponsored posts), you can become an AFF Supporter from just $6 and instantly remove all advertisements from our website!

OATEK

Established Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Posts
4,753
I don't think you can cry "bait and switch" when an aircraft goes US and they put you on the next available flight, which happens to be JQ. They've kept up their end of the deal which is getting you from A to B.
I can't help but feel that QF promotes themselves as more than an airline just getting you from A to B, and as serfty stated they break their own T&Cs when using JetStar. As Lucky_man says, how you frame things is important, so you would be arguing a bit more subtly I agree. But the "contract" between passenger and airline involves more than just getting from A to B, and I don't believe QF can argue there are no other alternatives to JQ in most cases.
 

blackcat20

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
12,525
But Qantas used (I am not sure if they still do) to advertise that on every Qantas Flight, you get food, luggage, entertainment etc. If QF were truly to hold their end of the deal, the OP would have received food as well.

Clearly if you've bee moved to JQ then you arent on Qantas. I guess it depends on whether you priority is getting to your destination, or a coughpy on board meal.

I can't help but feel that QF promotes themselves as more than an airline just getting you from A to B, and as serfty stated they break their own T&Cs when using JetStar. As Lucky_man says, how you frame things is important, so you would be arguing a bit more subtly I agree. But the "contract" between passenger and airline involves more than just getting from A to B, and I don't believe QF can argue there are no other alternatives to JQ in most cases.

Given they often run the one plane back and forth to Tas, they often dont have another option, and theyre clearly going to prefer putting you on JQ versus VA.
 

Oneworldplus2

Established Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Posts
3,016
Clearly if you've bee moved to JQ then you arent on Qantas. I guess it depends on whether you priority is getting to your destination, or a coughpy on board meal.

Well, if they don't honor what you paid for originally, then you should be entitled to a partial refund or compensation for an inferior product - which sounds like QF aren't willing to do. Hey, l purchased a Porsche, but received a Hyundai....
 

mannej

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Posts
9,885
Clearly if you've bee moved to JQ then you arent on Qantas. I guess it depends on whether you priority is getting to your destination, or a coughpy on board meal.

But if QF has advertised that you would get food etc on your flight, shouldn't you be entitled to that food, especially if it is issues outside of your control that you have been moved onto JQ?
 

Renato1

Established Member
Joined
May 1, 2015
Posts
1,930
The ACCC would refer you to the Airline Consumer Advocate - throwing the ACCC around is akin to someone complaining to a council throwing in the line I am a ratepayer...
If Australian Trade Practices Law is being breached - one goes to the ACCC.

An Airline Consumer Advocate is unlikely to launch legal proceedings that would cost an airline millions in dollars, and more in bad publicity.

I have referred things to th ACCC in the past which some may consider mundane - but they did go away and investigate.
Regards,
Renato
 

mannej

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Posts
9,885
If Australian Trade Practices Law is being breached - one goes to the ACCC.

An Airline Consumer Advocate is unlikely to launch legal proceedings that would cost an airline millions in dollars, and more in bad publicity.

I have referred things to th ACCC in the past which some may consider mundane - but they did go away and investigate.
Regards,
Renato

As others have mentioned here, the ACCC will refer you straight to the ACA. The ACCC will generally not investigate unless it is in their interests to do so, hence why they tend to refer complainants onto other Govt. Bodies.
 

harvyk

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Posts
6,902
Qantas
Gold
ACCC don't care about individual cases, they are likely to refer you to office of fair trading or your state or territory, and / or to a specific industry ombudsman, which in this case would be the airline consumer advocate.

My advice, send a polite, non-emotive, letter to QF about your downgrade to JQ, explain why it is unacceptable, and explain what you want done to resolve the issue, in this case the fare difference between what you paid, and the price you could have purchased the seat for on JQ.

Give them a deadline to respond in, say 4 weeks (give an exact date). Whilst ombudsmen taking on individual complaints do not scare large companies, large companies also have a threshold at which they figure it would be easier to pay up rather than fighting. They will probably include the words like 'in this instance' or 'as a valued customer' in their response.

As much as I love to on forums, don't go quoting laws or T&C's (unless you are a lawyer) since yours and my interpretation of such things are likely to be different to a legal departments, and don't go making threats like "next time I'll book with VA".

Using the above method I've pull many companies into line, including getting out of "you're 100% unable to cancel" contracts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VPS

WLGFlyer

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Posts
245
I don't think there is anything wrong in general with having been rebooked on JQ. I got to sleep in my own bed instead of travelling for another 14h. I guess I could have taken a stand and refused, but in this instance this was clearly the better option for me personally.

I will raise this with QF, if only to recover the missing SCs. I think a financial compensation would be appropriate given the difference in price, but not expecting anything.
 

CMA222

Active Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Posts
631
If Australian Trade Practices Law is being breached - one goes to the ACCC.

The Australian Consumer Law (ACL) is a Schedule to the Trade Practices Act and the (Federal) Competition and Consumer Act 2010 is actually administered in each State by the respective Department of Fair Trading. I would still be copying in the ACCC in any complaint as they are they ones working on the policy issues of protecting the consumer and have the current enquiry underway.

The ACL applies to airlines even though they only admit it if really pressed. The Airline Consumer Advocate (funded by its members and set up to stop the Comm Govt imposing a regulator on them) is the first port of call because that is where a Dept of Fair Trading will send you.The ACA are supposed to represent the Consumer.

The cancellation of a flight can be a 'major failure' under the ACL which is when a reasonable person would not have bought the goods if they had known about the problem. Of course, QF did not know about the problem either when they sold the flight which can complicate the issue. But a 'major failure' is also when the goods are significantly different from the description, which if they sold you QF service and benefits based on a description of what is included, and provided JQ service(??) the remedies for a 'major failure' under the ACL apply. The remedies include reject the goods and get a full refund and reject the goods and get an identical replacement. Also, consequential losses may be payable in the event of a major failure, which are the reasonable costs incurred to return the consumer to were they should have been if there was no major failure.

The issues are complicated by airline T's and C's and by compensation offered that is not adequate or in compliance with entitlements under the ACL. For example, offering the alternative JQ flight is part compensation. There is still an entitlement for what was originally offered and not supplied.

I suggest in any complaint to QF, the ACA, the ACCC and any Dept of Fair Trading the airlines failure to comply with the ACL be mentioned and reinforced. It does not hurt to mention the ABC's Checkout program (see Series 6 Ep 2 at 20 mins regarding OneStar) and also Choice's advice on dealing with airlines. Just mentioning them seems to get the airline's attention because of the potential for bad publicity. The last resort is taking the airline to the NCAT (NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal) in NSW (or equivalent elsewhere) which is a no cost jurisdiction (except in special circumstances) and QF will want the matter settled rather than waste their time and risk a decision that can be later used against them generally. Note NCAT may try to flick you to the ACA so best to go there first and mention your next step is NCAT.

Keep on the pressure as we will all benefit.
 
Last edited:

QF WP

Enthusiast
Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2002
Posts
18,154
Qantas
Gold
Virgin
Platinum
For everybody who reads this thread, I would be printing out a copy of this post below from serfty and putting it in my travel bag for future reference. Awesome research serfty

Actually, while, indeed, they often "have you over a barrel", such rebooking on Jestar is not in compliance with Qantas' own Conditions of Carriage.

The definition of "Our" specifically excludes Jetstar Services, this is important later on:


Now, note the use of "our services" throughout the following (I have underlined them). By the above definition, "rebooking"/"offering a seat" on "our services" cannot both include Jetstar services and at the same time, comply with these Conditions of Carriage:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top