Question on YQ and my RTW booking

[calgarychris]

Hi,

I have just booked an around the world ticket using Asia Miles in J for 2x pax on the following itinerary:

MEL-HKG (stop) - CX
HKG-CMB (stop) - CX
CMB-DOH (transit) - QR
DOH-JNB (stop) - QR
JNB-LHR (o/j) - BA
MAD-JFK (stop) - IB
JFK-YVR (stop) - CX
YVR-SYD (transit) - QF
SYD-MEL - QF

The above came out to be 380,000 Asia Miles along with $8,941HKD which by my reckoning is ~$1,500/pp. While I don't think that's too bad, I noticed that the YQ appears to be $5,850 of the total. I really struggled to book this itinerary with Asia Miles, I found the agents really struggled to see the flights that I was seeing had availability via BA's website. At one point I had an argument that the QR flights were actually visible on the Asia Miles booking engine!

A couple of questions if I might:

1. Any idea how much I would save by not flying into LHR on BA? My initial plan was for JNB-MAD via IB however they couldn't see the availability (and to be fair to them, those flights disappeared for me for a time as well)? I'm not even sure the itinerary would allow it as I was having troubles with too many transits already and I'm not even clear as to how they count the stops and transits anyway. In the above, is LHR counted as the O/J or is it a stop and then MAD is the o/j?

2. In the above, would there have been any other "tricks" that would have saved YQ costs? There are only two direct flights from JNB and I had used my transits already which is why I had to pick those spots

3. Any idea who's baggage rules apply? The ticket lists each carrier's rules, but from what I have read the "most significant carrier" in the above would be ... QR I think as I'm going from tariff area 3 to tariff area 2 with them?

4. I was able to choose seats and meals with CX and QF via their respective websites but not the other carriers - is that possible via the CX call centre?

5. Opinion - decent deal you reckon? I'm new to the game, but in my mind I'm thinking this is costing $1,500 + 190,000 points. The points came from Amex, which can be cashed in for $0.007/pp as statement credit or most folks value them at $0.02...When thinking about the redemption cost, would most people say this "cost" $1,500 + $1,330 or $1,500 + $3,800 per person?

Thanks - any tips/tricks or travel recommendations appreciated

Cheers

 

[JohnK]

The itinerary looks ok. I would have thought fuel surcharges on Asia miles should have been lower.

I believe the UK APD is £146/person in business. That would be ~AUD240/person. This is only levied on departures though not arrivals.

 

[calgarychris]

The itinerary looks ok. I would have thought fuel surcharges on Asia miles should have been lower.

I believe the UK APD is £146/person in business. That would be ~AUD240/person. This is only levied on departures though not arrivals.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I recall reading about the ADP but like you was under the impression that was departures only. I don't know if CX can provide the breakdown for taxes but I might ask for it... Any idea on the baggage that applies?

thanks again!

 

[zdb97]

For your question #4, CX and QF use same system (amadeus), therefore your PNR enables you to make seat selections for those two. The rest airlines in your case use other various systems. Call Asiamiles to get PNR for BA/IB/QR. Good luck.

 

[Pleb Status]

The BA and QFi sectors probably make up more than 50% of the YQ amount. If you want to get the YQ down you need to eliminate any BA and QFi sectors.

My recent QFF J RTW booking had AUD1511 in charges and only had one BA and one QFi sector as well.

 

[madrooster]

Hi,

I have just booked an around the world ticket using Asia Miles in J for 2x pax on the following itinerary:

MEL-HKG (stop) - CX
HKG-CMB (stop) - CX
CMB-DOH (transit) - QR
DOH-JNB (stop) - QR
JNB-LHR (o/j) - BA
MAD-JFK (stop) - IB
JFK-YVR (stop) - CX
YVR-SYD (transit) - QF
SYD-MEL - QF

The above came out to be 380,000 Asia Miles along with $8,941HKD which by my reckoning is ~$1,500/pp. While I don't think that's too bad, I noticed that the YQ appears to be $5,850 of the total. I really struggled to book this itinerary with Asia Miles, I found the agents really struggled to see the flights that I was seeing had availability via BA's website. At one point I had an argument that the QR flights were actually visible on the Asia Miles booking engine!

A couple of questions if I might:

1. Any idea how much I would save by not flying into LHR on BA? My initial plan was for JNB-MAD via IB however they couldn't see the availability (and to be fair to them, those flights disappeared for me for a time as well)? I'm not even sure the itinerary would allow it as I was having troubles with too many transits already and I'm not even clear as to how they count the stops and transits anyway. In the above, is LHR counted as the O/J or is it a stop and then MAD is the o/j?

2. In the above, would there have been any other "tricks" that would have saved YQ costs? There are only two direct flights from JNB and I had used my transits already which is why I had to pick those spots

3. Any idea who's baggage rules apply? The ticket lists each carrier's rules, but from what I have read the "most significant carrier" in the above would be ... QR I think as I'm going from tariff area 3 to tariff area 2 with them?

4. I was able to choose seats and meals with CX and QF via their respective websites but not the other carriers - is that possible via the CX call centre?

5. Opinion - decent deal you reckon? I'm new to the game, but in my mind I'm thinking this is costing $1,500 + 190,000 points. The points came from Amex, which can be cashed in for $0.007/pp as statement credit or most folks value them at $0.02...When thinking about the redemption cost, would most people say this "cost" $1,500 + $1,330 or $1,500 + $3,800 per person?

Thanks - any tips/tricks or travel recommendations appreciated

Cheers

To answer your questions...

1. Stops - 5 allowed: HKG, CMB, JNB, JFK, YVR
Transits - 2 allowed: DOH, SYD
Open jaws - 2 allowed: LHR-MAD, one unused

IB JNB-MAD should've been allowed as long as you route JNB-MAD-LHR both on IB. If you did JNB-MAD on IB, then LHR-MAD on IB it wouldn't be allowed as there is an exception rule with Asia Miles not allowing stopovers or open jaws when IB is involved.

2. If you're crafty you can fuel dump awards - it is possible but you need specific combinations and it is a black art that isn't easy to master. Lots of trial and error. Otherwise you mainly need to steer clear of BA, IB, RJ, MH and QF mainly.

3. LHR is your ultimate ticketed destination for the purposes of the IATA resolution 302 baggage rules. As LHR is not in the US or CA, the IATA resolution 302 most significant marketing carrier rules apply per journey, not the US DoT/CA CTA exception rules.

The baggage rules that apply, assuming all your flights are in J:

MEL-HKG - CX 40kg
HKG-CMB - CX 40kg
CMB-DOH-JNB - QR 40kg
JNB-LHR - BA 2pc, 32kg/pc
MAD-JFK - IB 2pc, 23kg/pc (this is not a typo)
JFK-YVR - CX 2pc, 32kg/pc
YVR-SYD-MEL - QF 3pc, 32kg/pc

4. Use the QR website it should let you pick seats on all of your flights.

5. It's subjective. It depends on how you account for miles and your view on how you wish to view the redemption value per point.

For your question #4, CX and QF use same system (amadeus), therefore your PNR enables you to make seat selections for those two. The rest airlines in your case use other various systems. Call Asiamiles to get PNR for BA/IB/QR. Good luck.

QF/CX/BA/QR/IB all use Amadeus. There is only one PNR in this scenario.

 

[Ken1]

To answer your questions...

3. LHR is your ultimate ticketed destination for the purposes of the IATA resolution 302 baggage rules. As LHR is not in the US or CA, the IATA resolution 302 most significant marketing carrier rules apply per journey, not the US DoT/CA CTA exception rules.

The baggage rules that apply, assuming all your flights are in J:

MEL-HKG - CX 40kg
HKG-CMB - CX 40kg
CMB-DOH-JNB - QR 40kg
JNB-LHR - BA 2pc, 32kg/pc
MAD-JFK - IB 2pc, 23kg/pc (this is not a typo)
JFK-YVR - CX 2pc, 32kg/pc
YVR-SYD-MEL - QF 3pc, 32kg/pc

I have booked a few J QFF 280K One World Awards over the last few years and each time I have added a stop in the US or Canada the baggage allowance has changed from the weight system to the piece system for the whole itinerary and it's my understanding from what I have been told by QF that so long as a North American stop is included somewhere in the itinerary this is the case but I don't know if the same applies to bookings made through CX.

I have One World Award tickets booked for later this year and we are flying SYD-MEL-LHR on QF. When these were the only flights in the booking the baggage allowance showed as 40kg. When I added ZRH-LHR-YYC with BA the allowance changed to 3 x 32kg bags on the QF flights and 2 x 32kg bags for the BA flights. I then finally added YVR-HKG-SYD on CX and it is showing as 2 x 32kg for those flights as well.

I've just logged in to look at the booking on the QF website and it shows the baggage allowance of each flight in the itinerary - QF, BA and CX. When I log in the the CX website it doesn't show the allowance for any of the flights. Manage My Booking on the BA website shows the baggage allowance for the QF flights as if it was the BA allowance so it is not accurate for non BA flights. If I look at my booking on the Check My Trip website it shows the baggage allowance correctly when I select each flight.

 

[madrooster]

I have booked a few J QFF 280K One World Awards over the last few years and each time I have added a stop in the US or Canada the baggage allowance has changed from the weight system to the piece system for the whole itinerary and it's my understanding from what I have been told by QF that so long as a North American stop is included somewhere in the itinerary this is the case but I don't know if the same applies to bookings made through CX.

I have One World Award tickets booked for later this year and we are flying SYD-MEL-LHR on QF. When these were the only flights in the booking the baggage allowance showed as 40kg. When I added ZRH-LHR-YYC with BA the allowance changed to 3 x 32kg bags on the QF flights and 2 x 32kg bags for the BA flights. I then finally added YVR-HKG-SYD on CX and it is showing as 2 x 32kg for those flights as well.

I've just logged in to look at the booking on the QF website and it shows the baggage allowance of each flight in the itinerary - QF, BA and CX. When I log in the the CX website it doesn't show the allowance for any of the flights. Manage My Booking on the BA website shows the baggage allowance for the QF flights as if it was the BA allowance so it is not accurate for non BA flights. If I look at my booking on the Check My Trip website it shows the baggage allowance correctly when I select each flight.

QF don't make the rules. IATA does. QF often gets the baggage wrong on oneworld awards so I'm not surprised. The ultimate ticketed destination being in the US or Canada is what triggers the piece system throughout the entire ticket.

Using your examples...

SYD QF MEL QF LHR - ultimate ticketed destination is LHR so IATA 302 rules apply, so QF allowance (determined by MEL-LHR)
SYD QF MEL QF LHR /- ZRH BA LHR BA YYC - ultimate ticketed destination is YYC so the US/CA exception applies, in which case the first marketing carrier's rules apply, so QF's US/CA allowance applies for the entire ticket, that being 3 x 32kg (no idea why QF ticketed you with 2 pieces for BA... that shouldn't be the case)
SYD QF MEL QF LHR /- ZRH BA LHR BA YYC /- YVR CX HKG CX SYD - ultimate ticketed destination is LHR so IATA 302 rules apply, so QF allowance 3 x 32kg to LHR (this comes up as pieces but QF have actually filed their rules incorrectly with ATPCO), BA allowance 2 x 32kg to YYC, CX allowance 2 x 32kg to SYD

 

[calgarychris]

To answer your questions...

1. Stops - 5 allowed: HKG, CMB, JNB, JFK, YVR
Transits - 2 allowed: DOH, SYD
Open jaws - 2 allowed: LHR-MAD, one unused

IB JNB-MAD should've been allowed as long as you route JNB-MAD-LHR both on IB. If you did JNB-MAD on IB, then LHR-MAD on IB it wouldn't be allowed as there is an exception rule with Asia Miles not allowing stopovers or open jaws when IB is involved.

I was disappointed I couldn't use my o/j on the way back. Like o/j YVR-MEL or YVR-SYD then o/j to MEL, but they said you have to return to the city of origin...I'm not going to mess around with the JNB-LHR as it'll suit the itinerary and frankly I can't be stuffed getting on the phone again...

2. If you're crafty you can fuel dump awards - it is possible but you need specific combinations and it is a black art that isn't easy to master. Lots of trial and error. Otherwise you mainly need to steer clear of BA, IB, RJ, MH and QF mainly.

Yeah, I've read a little about it - frankly I think it's a little bit beyond me. I'm happy I managed to get the rtw ticket booked and while it's a drag that I got hit with so much in the way of fees, I guess I should be happy. Although...since I have an o/j left, could I o/j from YVR to LAX and fly AA to MEL instead of QF and save cash? Frankly I'm not likely to even be getting on those flights, so I don't really care what the airline is...

3. LHR is your ultimate ticketed destination for the purposes of the IATA resolution 302 baggage rules. As LHR is not in the US or CA, the IATA resolution 302 most significant marketing carrier rules apply per journey, not the US DoT/CA CTA exception rules.

The baggage rules that apply, assuming all your flights are in J:

MEL-HKG - CX 40kg
HKG-CMB - CX 40kg
CMB-DOH-JNB - QR 40kg
JNB-LHR - BA 2pc, 32kg/pc
MAD-JFK - IB 2pc, 23kg/pc (this is not a typo)
JFK-YVR - CX 2pc, 32kg/pc
YVR-SYD-MEL - QF 3pc, 32kg/pc

Okay, now this I don't understand - how is this determined? I thought when I looked it up I was crossing over from IATA tariff area 3 to 2 and therefore my most significant carrier would be QR??? And how do you determine LHR is my ultimate destination (which if correct is ironic given we've only got a few days there!). I wish I could get CX to confirm the rules, the agent implied that I have to comply with each rule for each carrier. It's a bit moot, since I suspect we'll be 1x23kg each (possibly 2x20kg for one of us) but I'm interested to know...

4. Use the QR website it should let you pick seats on all of your flights.

Appears to work for all but BA. I'm incredulous - BA actually charges for seating in J. I cannot believe that. I've checked on BA's website and called them and they do (and it's bloody expensive!). I was told I can book for free 7 days out...yeesh. There goes my upper deck spots...

5. It's subjective. It depends on how you account for miles and your view on how you wish to view the redemption value per point.

Yes, but as folks around here have done it a lot more often, I was keen for any feedback. I'm not the type to pay for J, but I am willing to pay a bit more than Y, and I figured around the world for $1,500/pp is pretty good...The points probably cost me another $1,000 to acquire so I'm happy...

Anyway, thanks for all the great info, much appreciated!

Cheers

 

[madrooster]

Okay, now this I don't understand - how is this determined? I thought when I looked it up I was crossing over from IATA tariff area 3 to 2 and therefore my most significant carrier would be QR??? And how do you determine LHR is my ultimate destination (which if correct is ironic given we've only got a few days there!). I wish I could get CX to confirm the rules, the agent implied that I have to comply with each rule for each carrier. It's a bit moot, since I suspect we'll be 1x23kg each (possibly 2x20kg for one of us) but I'm interested to know...

The ultimate ticketed destination is the furthest ticketed point in your ticket. In that example, it is LHR. IATA resolution 302 applies the most significant marketing carrier per journey, not per ticket like the US DoT/CA CTA exception.

At the end of the day, the allowance on your ticket is what will apply, irrespective of whether they got it correct or not. It happens a lot with complex awards. For example, QF's rules are filed with ATPCo incorrectly.