QP members diverted from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Complete - "Next Year"

[TomVexille]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Ne...

I am concerned about this comment on the AusBT article by Skobe:
"I recently travelled through LAX and despite being a gold Qantas Frequent Flyer, I too was rejected! I was told that they were overcrowded and only allowing business and first class passengers in. I was flying Premium Economy. So don't think being gold mans anything, it doesn't!Not happy Qantas!!"

I scoured this thread. Has anyone else heard of QF Gold or OW Sapphire being turned away? This will really p--- me off as my connecting flight from Toronto arrives 7 hours before my departure on QF 12.

I would think that you would probably be fine if you get in early.

 

[Sojourner]

Re: Qantas removes Lounge Access for QP members on EK flights from Oct 1

Yes, QF really set themselves up for a hiding to nothing. I agree that flyers who buy QP membership are those that don't fly with QF enough to get SG, but frequent enough to make it worthwhile - they are potential SG or even WP members. So QF promoted the new LAX lounge like crazy... only to then slam the door in their face as they arrive? That's just inviting disaster.

How could they have possibly not been able to properly estimate of how many customers they need? This is just incompetence on the grandest scale. It's one QF stuff up after another, one more "enhancement" after another... how many more stuff ups and "enhancements" do we have to go through before they sack Alan Joyce? It feels like the QF brand is getting trashed piece by piece and as AJ's process of Jetstarization continues.

I still cannot believe that he gave the first delivery of Dreamliners to Jetstar... and then dumped the older A330's Jetstar was using for QF. What a way to treat your premium brand and your premium customers.

This lounge fiasco seems like a great example of QFi's decline. Let me summarise

1 - spend huge amounts of money building a new lounge
2 - promote the huge spend to the most loyal customers through many many many many communications (emails, banners on website, press, media)
3 - excite the most loyal members that a new experience awaits (those who remember the previous QP in LAX will be even more excited than can be explained)
4 - deny a segment of the most loyal customers access to this great new asset using weasel words in clause 1 Million of 3 Million...

How an organisation of QFi's size can get this so badly wrong is just extremely poor business. QFi have access to the exact number of QP, SG, WP and P1 members flying on each and every flight. So it can't be that hard to forward plan that when X lounge is closed Y people won't fit.

Here's an alternative process. 7 Days prior to each flight, QP Staff proactively contact all the QP members on a flight with an "Invitation" to use the AA Club in T4. The message being "that during the rebuild of the F-Lounge capacity has been reduced in TBIT, but don't worry we are here to make the journey smooth for you". They get their $50 food voucher plus access to the AA Lounge in T4. Then 1 hour prior to departure a QF Uniformed employee meets said QP members in the AA Lounge in T4, escorts them to the waiting bus at Gate 47 (I think that's the gate). The bus full of QP members goes straight to the departure gate with time for a smooth boarding process.

At a time when QFi are struggling it just seems stupid to me to annoy customers loyal enough to pay $500 a year for a semi-comfortable seat and a toasted sandwich! These are the customers that when booking a flight START on the QF website, then consider alternatives when the prices looks silly.

Just bad business!

 

[amaroo]

Re: Qantas removes Lounge Access for QP members on EK flights from Oct 1

Yes, QF really set themselves up for a hiding to nothing. I agree that flyers who buy QP membership are those that don't fly with QF enough to get SG, but frequent enough to make it worthwhile - they are potential SG or even WP members. So QF promoted the new LAX lounge like crazy... only to then slam the door in their face as they arrive? That's just inviting disaster.

How could they have possibly not been able to properly estimate of how many customers they need? This is just incompetence on the grandest scale. It's one QF stuff up after another, one more "enhancement" after another... how many more stuff ups and "enhancements" do we have to go through before they sack Alan Joyce? It feels like the QF brand is getting trashed piece by piece and as AJ's process of Jetstarization continues.

I still cannot believe that he gave the first delivery of Dreamliners to Jetstar... and then dumped the older A330's Jetstar was using for QF. What a way to treat your premium brand and your premium customers.

I was a supporter of AJ, however I have to admit - you're correct in your assessment.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Next Y

People still buy QP memberships? I can't think of a poorer value proposition.

It's clear that QF are hell bent on upsetting all customers, at least in this case they're being specific rather than the usual cluster cough* approach

 

[TheBOSman]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Next Y

People still buy QP memberships? I can't think of a poorer value proposition.

It's clear that QF are hell bent on upsetting all customers, at least in this case they're being specific rather than the usual cluster cough* approach

I'm not 100% familiar with QF's domestic Australia earning, but I'm guessing someone who flies only domestic Australia for work (which has to be a decent number of people) would have to take a massive number of flights to get to SG. A QP membership would make some sense in that case, there are a lot of AC members up here in the US who fly only domestic US.

 

[Anna]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Next Y

Spare a thought for the poor lounge staff who have to go work every day knowing they have to deliver the bad news to at least tens of pax, possibly more, each day - some of whom will react unpleasantly when it's not even the lounge staff's fault. Pretty coughpy situation to put your staff in, QF.

 

[Jack_OC]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Next Y

I'm not 100% familiar with QF's domestic Australia earning, but I'm guessing someone who flies only domestic Australia for work (which has to be a decent number of people) would have to take a massive number of flights to get to SG. A QP membership would make some sense in that case, there are a lot of AC members up here in the US who fly only domestic US.

Yes - for example it would take 35 MEL-SYD-MEL round trips to get to SG. I can see the value of QP for someone who flies regularly, but not quite that much.

Anecdotally though, a lot of people seem to pay for QP even though they fly relatively rarely. Like my father in law, who flies domestically about 5 or 6 times a year, and not alway with QF. Pretty questionable value for someone like him.

 

[BAM1748]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Next Y

People still buy QP memberships? I can't think of a poorer value proposition.

Buying a $500K Bently isn't good value if all you want is a car, but if you have the money then why not.

Matt

 

[Steelo]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Next Y

Yes - for example it would take 35 MEL-SYD-MEL round trips to get to SG. I can see the value of QP for someone who flies regularly, but not quite that much.

Anecdotally though, a lot of people seem to pay for QP even though they fly relatively rarely. Like my father in law, who flies domestically about 5 or 6 times a year, and not alway with QF. Pretty questionable value for someone like him.

We buy or subscribe to a range of services that we may find personally valuable and are not considered the same way by others. Qantas Club membership means different things for different people and they assess the value on their terms.

 

[MelUser]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Next Y

Qatar airways dealt with this in a workable way in the old Doha airport.

You didn't even get to go to the business/first class terminal unless you were flying business or first class.

This kept economy class passengers with status or whatever other right into a lounge in the economy terminal and therefore having to use whatever lounge was there - hence my tea/coffee and a biscuit lounge joke.

In Dubai there is the upstairs level of the terminal for First class passengers (and one world level etc) - ie the whole floor;
The middle floor in Dubai is for Business Class passengers (and equivalent one world level etc)
Bottom floor is for economy class passengers.

It seems to me that on a Friday night boarding a Qantas flight out of LAX that many pax are either in First or Business, Qantas Platinums or Golds or Qantas Club members.

I know people who have joined Qantas Club just because they are going to USA for the holiday of a lifetime.

I have also witnessed first hand more than once a non status Qantas Club member getting spouse and 2/3/4 kids (where all passengers are travelling in economy class) into the Qantas Business Class passenger lounge at TBIT. These sort of lounge access rules into what should be a quiet lounge for Business Class passengers are going to lead to overcrowding - hence the ban.

Please note I am not expressing a view whether this is right or wrong - just that this is happening (before you fire off at me!)

 

[harvyk]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Next Y

For anyone questioning why you would buy a QP membership?

Well I personally buy QP because it typically gives me a comfy place to sit and unwind, whilst the food is nothing special, it does mean that I can grab some brekky before flying down to MEL for the day without needing to either buy something at the airport (expensive) or get up even earlier than I would otherwise need to. It means that after a day of traipsing around in SIN all day in 100% humidity and 30C+ temp I can have a shower before boarding my flight back to BNE (and thus saving the noses of my fellow pax). It means that rather than find a bar and pay $10 a beer in PER before I fly out that night, I can simply go to the QP and have a couple of free brewski's prior to my flight. (and it also once meant a quite place to burn the midnight oil on a project prior to getting on a red-eye flight to fly PER-MEL where I would be presenting the changes to a customer having only discussed them with a supplier that day, it was however 5 figures worth it)

Furthermore as I mentioned above, do not assume that a person is a QP member because they do not fly. Whilst I do not fly as much as I used to back in 2008. Back in 2008 I was flying somewhere every 2nd to 3rd week on average. However since they where all short haul red-e-deals I was pretty much netting no more than 20SC's on most trips. 20 trips in a single year certainly put me in the frequent flyer category, however 20 x 20 = 400SC's. Add in a couple of AKL's per year and I was still only making 500 - 550SC's. Enough to put me in PS territory, no where near enough for even SG.

Had I did the same sort of flying in J, WP without a doubt. Unfortunately been self employed and with most of those trips coming out of my own pocket with no guarantee of a return on investment it was Red-E-Deals or nothing.

 

[TomVexille]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Next Y

People still buy QP memberships? I can't think of a poorer value proposition.

It's clear that QF are hell bent on upsetting all customers, at least in this case they're being specific rather than the usual cluster cough* approach

At my company, the travel policy says that if you can prove that you need to fly 10 times or more in a year (for work of course), the company will buy you QP.

 

[serfty]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Ne...

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[docjames]

Re: Qantas removes Lounge Access for QP members on EK flights from Oct 1

Really strange decisions from Qantas recently.

Sabotage?

If choosing between conspiracy and incompetence, then incompetence usually wins.

 

[harvyk]

Re: Qantas removes Lounge Access for QP members on EK flights from Oct 1

If choosing between conspiracy and incompetence, then incompetence usually wins.

It's pretty logical that incompetence usually wins. Conspiracies involve a lot of people working really hard towards a unified goal, and all it typically takes is one member of the conspiracy to drop the ball and the whole thing becomes unraveled.
Incompetence simply involved some employee named "Bob" to be really really bad at his job, and his manager "Jane" to be too "busy" to care...

I can think of far more scenario B's than scenario A's.

 

[TheBOSman]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Next Y

At my company, the travel policy says that if you can prove that you need to fly 10 times or more in a year (for work of course), the company will buy you QP.

Makes sense. The MEL-SYD-MEL example above, someone flying every other week for a year (pretty reasonable even for non heavy travel jobs) wouldn't even get close to SG and a QP membership would make a lot of sense there. Wouldn't surprise if said person used the accumulated QF miles to take the family on the big trip to America, only to be disappointed when turned away at the one time that a business class lounge is actually accessible. I'd be very unhappy in that situation for sure, and it doesn't seem too unlikely. All of us OWEs and P1s and WPs are really not quite as big in numbers as the PS or SG members.

 

[serfty]

Re: Qantas removes Lounge Access for QP members on EK flights from Oct 1

Hence "Hanlon's Razor"

 

[drron]

Re: Qantas removes Lounge Access for QP members on EK flights from Oct 1

If choosing between conspiracy and incompetence, then incompetence usually wins.

Spent a day with a former Premier of SA 30 years ago and his version was-"if there is a choice between a conspiracy and a stuff up the stuffup wins every time."
Said it was nearly impossible to get 3 politicians to agree and over that number no chance.

 

[harvyk]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Next Y

At my company, the travel policy says that if you can prove that you need to fly 10 times or more in a year (for work of course), the company will buy you QP.

Is that "fly" as in physically get onto a plane, or is that "fly" as in do a trip?
In either case that's only really once every 4 to 6 weeks.

10 flights is what I consider my break even point. Yes I don't get $50 of value out of every visit, but at $50 per visit to starts to average out to something reasonable. It muddies the waters a little since I'm now finding ways to fly in J more often these days (and would therefore still get lounge access), but I figure if I do 10 Y flights in a membership year and thus get 10 entries into the QP, it starts to become worth it, every visit beyond that is simply a bonus.

 

[timster]

Re: QP Members Barred from LAX TBIT Lounge until upgrade Completed - Sometime "Next Y

I can't find any figures in the 2013 annual report, but the 2012 annual report shows QP membership fee revenue of $85m for 2012 and $84m for 2011. In the current climate they can't afford to be screwing with that.