QF's inflexibility re award seats

[Platy]

To me, it meets the level to which the average person would understand; I would hardly expect the staff to run a training seminar on how the booking systems work

I have a little more faith than you in the intelligence of the "average person". Nor would I presume to pre-judge the smarts of a customer.

Perhaps the airlines don't want to explain the booking system - even a basic knowledge exposes the lack of commitment to deliver awards/redemptions and a preference for empty seats over delivery of expectations created in the minds of loyal customers.

Incidentally, just looked at a redemption CNS-SYD-AKL and the fuel surcharges etc add up to over $200 one way - about 50% of the discount economy fare - farcical.

 

[oz_mark]

I have a little more faith than you in the intelligence of the "average person". Nor would I presume to pre-judge the smarts of a customer.

Perhaps the airlines don't want to explain the booking system - even a basic knowledge exposes the lack of commitment to deliver awards/redemptions and a preference for empty seats over delivery of expectations created in the minds of loyal customers.

The problem is, that if an agent tried to explain it, customers would then start arguing with the agent about whether the policy is right or wrong. It is not the agents job to do this, and it certainly it is something they would prefer to avoid. Ceratinly I have been in jobs where the best response is to just not get drawn into the discussion'

 

[Platy]

The problem is, that if an agent tried to explain it, customers would then start arguing with the agent about whether the policy is right or wrong. It is not the agents job to do this, and it certainly it is something they would prefer to avoid. Ceratinly I have been in jobs where the best response is to just not get drawn into the discussion'

You may be right in many instances.

However, I can think of quite a few instances as a customer myself that "arguing" the toss about the system, etc, has enabled resolution of non delivery of promised services:

- Hilton Honors not awarding QF FF points (my QF number incorrectly assigned to someone else's account, this took ages to clear up because agents wouldn't step outside the script and refused to belive my number was really mine)
- refund of wrongly charged over due fees on my AMEX account (system followed in two different ways by two different people)
- double charged for car hire by AVIS in Malta (couldn't resolve for two months because system not followed by Uk office and all other agents refused to step out of system)
- failure of QF market reseach in selecting sample of people on their datbase who had agreed to participate

In each case I needed to learn a little about the system in order to determine the error - none of the agents above could accept the weaknesses/mis-application within their systems.

To conclude, in some cases what the customer has to say may be valid and useful feedback (system can be improved), necesary observations to fix a problem, etc.

Sure in some other cases the cutomer is just a dingbat or plain wrong.

 

[sully]

I will admit to being difficult in some circumstances, but this generally involves a serious patronising tone from, lets say, a Harbajhan Singh sympathiser.

I have to say that QF staff are normally very helpful and quite pleasant, as they were when I made the original bookings for the boys. I just found it to be an absurdity that if seats were available then the through flight would have been the most sensible solution.

I have just spoken with the boys at BNE who were just able to get on their allocated domestic flight. This is after having to get off a flight from LAX that was literally 25% full in Y such that nearly everyone could stretch out over multi seats, and which was further abandoned when it landed at BNE. They had to negotiate customs and immigration, pick up their bags and then catch the train to DOM. They were the last accepted on the flight to SYD. BTW they did ask at the counter in LAX and were told in no uncertain terms that they had to disembark on arrival in BNE. No buts about it, and I know my boys well as pretty persuasive debaters.

Anyway, they are nearly home and they had a great time. I am still bemused by the QF attitude and will remain so. I hear that this could be a thing of the past soon when QF announce their 'enhancements' to the FF rules. The little birdie I heard has stated that there will be unfettered availability of award seats but at a significantly much higher burn rate than is currently the case.

That of course is the subject of another thread in the future I'm sure.

 

[oz_mark]

You may be right in many instances.

However, I can think of quite a few instances as a customer myself that "arguing" the toss about the system, etc, has enabled resolution of non delivery of promised services:

[...examples removed...]

In each case I needed to learn a little about the system in order to determine the error - none of the agents above could accept the weaknesses/mis-application within their systems.

To conclude, in some cases what the customer has to say may be valid and useful feedback (system can be improved), necesary observations to fix a problem, etc.

Sure in some other cases the cutomer is just a dingbat or plain wrong.

I don't disagree with what you say, and I have successfully challenged 'the system' on a number of occasions (and I include the likes of Priority Club, Westpac and so on), but this has never been with the telephone agent, who in my experience don't have much authority to so anything.

 

[Platy]

I don't disagree with what you say, and I have successfully challenged 'the system' on a number of occasions (and I include the likes of Priority Club, Westpac and so on), but this has never been with the telephone agent, who in my experience don't have much authority to so anything.

Yes, indeed! I sometimes ask the person if they have the authority to resolve an issue and if not politely request to speak with someone who has!

 

[Platy]

I will admit to being difficult in some circumstances, but this generally involves a serious patronising tone from, lets say, a Harbajhan Singh sympathiser. ...I have just spoken with the boys at BNE who were just able to get on their allocated domestic flight.

Glad to hear the boys are back safe and sound and had a great time!

(OT- Dare I mention (probably the latent Pommie in me) I'm rather pleased that someone is getting stuck into the Aussies and will watch the match today with some anticipation!!!)

 

[dajop]

I am sure it has to do with availability, but if a seat had been available on the code all the way through to Syd, QF would have missed out on the extra $40 or so per passenger in domestic fuel fines ....

 

[wandering_fred]

I have a little more faith than you in the intelligence of the "average person". Nor would I presume to pre-judge the smarts of a customer.

Perhaps the airlines don't want to explain the booking system - even a basic knowledge exposes the lack of commitment to deliver awards/redemptions and a preference for empty seats over delivery of expectations created in the minds of loyal customers.

No - the airlines seriously do not want to explain the booking system. The fare codes have long been replaced by Super-Saver FlexiSaver or just plain economy. The Fair trading laws should require that all information relating to passenger benefits be available before the commitment to purchase is required. QF's mileage benefits to OTHER One World airline's frequent flyer members depends on the fare class codes..... but you don't see the codes.

Expert Flyer would not have a market niche if the airlines wanted to provide full explanations......

One of my unhappy wanderings while planning airline flights.....

Fred

 

[serfty]

... One of my unhappy wanderings while planning airline flights.....

... or was that wonderings?

 

[wandering_fred]

You wonder....

Then you wander trying to find the answer
Or reason
Or the limits of the rules
Or the source of the best deal.....


But I wander

Fred

 

[serfty]

I'm wondering at the moment ...

... how AA charge $374 in +++ for a LONE4 routing, when for a similar route with a QFF award having four less intra Asia segments and two less domestic Oz segments, the taxes are $874!

I expected a difference, but not over $1K (probably $1200+) for 2 PAX. :shock:

 

[simongr]

It might explain why QF are able to invest billions in 100+ new aircraft? And AA are barely able to afford a barely adequate J product...

 

[wandering_fred]

But would QF fill any planes in the USA domestic market? Or have any FF members if they were a USA based airline?

Just wondering ... or is that wandering

Fred

 

[blu]

"I hear that this could be a thing of the past soon when QF announce their 'enhancements' to the FF rules. The little birdie I heard has stated that there will be unfettered availability of award seats but at a significantly much higher burn rate than is currently the case.."



Any indications when this may commence. Further info appreciated.

 

[simongr]

QF have announced that from July there will be anytime award availability at a higher points costs. They have stated that this will have no impact on the price of normal awards.

This has been reported in multiple threads here and on FT - can't find the exact source at the moment.

 

[oz_mark]

"I hear that this could be a thing of the past soon when QF announce their 'enhancements' to the FF rules. The little birdie I heard has stated that there will be unfettered availability of award seats but at a significantly much higher burn rate than is currently the case.."



Any indications when this may commence. Further info appreciated.

It has been discussed in other threads, and we are all awaiting information from Qantas on the implementation date. There have been newspaper reports giving mid-year as a time frame.

 

[simongr]

This is the most recent specific citing I have seen on this site for this:

Aubs references a conference call with investors

 

[JohnK]

So, judging from the posts I am the inflexible one?

It would be logical for QF to have kept them on the same flight, if there are any spare seats available, rather than giving them a flight from the domestic terminal where there is a chance to misconnect. But I have seen stranger things happen with QFs award booking engine.

I don't buy the "rules are rules" comment. Being felxible to the customer occasionally can go a long way. It is all a matter of interpretation and from my experience if you get the right customer service agent then they could be persuaded to bend the rules slightly.

Just going slightly OT here but when I arrived at the airport 15 minutes before my scheduled SYD-ADL flight with a bag and golf clubs in hand and asking at the service counter what to do as I am going SYD-ADL-DRW the lady mentioned that it is too late for that flight. She then started tapping away on the keyboard and said that if I rushed to that counter I will be put on the SYD-BNE-DRW flights. She did not know my status, QF Gold at the time, and she was not obliged to do anything for me, read Jetstar. Thanks for your kindness.

So much for rules and yield management by putting me onto other flights that looked full and would not have had any availability in my original deep discount "O" class booking.

 

[oz_mark]

It might explain why QF are able to invest billions in 100+ new aircraft? And AA are barely able to afford a barely adequate J product...

So where are these new aircraft?