QF9 turnback 8/9/18

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QF9/10 has not had a good run this week with the technical issue also earlier in the week. I'm in London and had a colleague on the hugely delayed flight ex-LHR. He was not impressed. EK had no space either.
Did he ask to be put on another carrier, even non-oneworld?
 
I was booked on QF10 from LHR-MEL this week. About 3 weeks ago I noticed the PER-MEL sector had changed to a 737 and I was downgraded from PE to Y. A call to Qantas was very helpful and I was rebooked via SIN.

I’m not sure if this is correct but the agent said the aircraft change was due to the delayed delivery of one of the 787s.
 
I'll be on qf10 and qf95 in a couple of weeks. Hope it's sorted by then and back on track. Was originally on qf55 but that has since been cancelled and hence 95 was my only option.....
 
What a debacle this whole thing is. +1000 passengers affected. Rebookings. Compensation. Loss of goodwill. Knock on effects. Call center stress. Planes out of position. Downgrades.

There's is only so long Qantas can go blaming the passenger before they need to take accountability and recognise the fragility of their network.

They need to re run their risk assessments and contingency plans again so to avoid repeat situations. Its not like this scenario was a total out the blue unknown.

They are now on borrowed time. If it happens again I don't believe the public will be too forgiving next time.
 
Does it count if it stems from a disruptive passenger causing delays? Would seem unfair.

Depends i guess. We need to know a bit more about the incident too, why the passenger was disruptive, was alcohol involved, was this served by the airline, did the passenger show any signs before boarding (but was still allowed to board), etc.

The courts have held that knock on delays aren’t ‘extraordinary’ for the purposes of EU261, but the issue of a disruptive passenger, might be considered differently.

I guess on the basis of EU261, events such as these might be seen as part of running the business.
 
What a debacle this whole thing is. +1000 passengers affected. Rebookings. Compensation. Loss of goodwill. Knock on effects. Call center stress. Planes out of position. Downgrades.

There's is only so long Qantas can go blaming the passenger before they need to take accountability and recognise the fragility of their network.

They need to re run their risk assessments and contingency plans again so to avoid repeat situations. Its not like this scenario was a total out the blue unknown.

They are now on borrowed time. If it happens again I don't believe the public will be too forgiving next time.

That seems a bit extreme. The flight is delayed and they've motioned to fill the gaps to ensure people get to their locations. Sure, it also affects people at the other end with delays, but I can't see this being in the 1000's. Any airline that has a route of this scale would face the same problems. Even ones that are smaller. Have you tried flying Etihad lately? Even when all their planes are in the air and full of passengers they seem to have problems.
 
Actually, routing through PER allows QF to cope with these sorts of issues much better. OK, passengers might not like being downgraded to 737 or 330 but at least PER has more options available to QF than the DXB layover had, and passengers are probably less likely to be “stranded” and are more likely to reach their destination within a reasonable timeframe. There were many stories of people being stranded in DXB (except for the company CEO ....) when things went pear shaped.
 
Updated media reports today suggest that the passenger was very belligerent indeed. Crew had to co-opt the help of several male passengers to subdue him.

Apparently passengers on board that saw the incident are supporting the turnback decision.
 
Depends i guess. We need to know a bit more about the incident too, why the passenger was disruptive, was alcohol involved, was this served by the airline, did the passenger show any signs before boarding (but was still allowed to board), etc.

The courts have held that knock on delays aren’t ‘extraordinary’ for the purposes of EU261, but the issue of a disruptive passenger, might be considered differently.

I guess on the basis of EU261, events such as these might be seen as part of running the business.
I was wondering this as well. Was the pax slinging back booze or did they take some meds to assist them with flying and reacted badly or they do have a mental health issue that was exasperated by the confined space/crowd ect
 
Sure, it also affects people at the other end with delays, but I can't see this being in the 1000's.
You're forgetting the next days issues with;
Return QF9 PER LHR delay
MEL PER QF9/10 downgrade
MEL LAZ QF95/96 Cancellation

It's not just one plane load.. easily 1000 pax affected there. And how long it will be to right it is anyone's guess
 
You're forgetting the next days issues with;
Return QF9 PER LHR delay
MEL PER QF9/10 downgrade
MEL LAZ QF95/96 Cancellation

It's not just one plane load.. easily 1000 pax affected there. And how long it will be to right it is anyone's guess
And all of that is related to the same issue and were done to limit other delays.
 
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There's is only so long Qantas can go blaming the passenger before they need to take accountability and recognise the fragility of their network.

That seems a bit harsh. 787s are a bit expensive to just have one sitting around idle in case it's needed. Their biggest problem is the number of different aircraft they fly; Emirates for example have a huge advantage with only having 380s or 777s, and either can sub for the other if needed.

That said I'd be certainly annoyed if I wound up in 737 J instead of on a 787 and would be expecting some compensation.
 
You're forgetting the next days issues with;
Return QF9 PER LHR delay
MEL PER QF9/10 downgrade
MEL LAZ QF95/96 Cancellation

It's not just one plane load.. easily 1000 pax affected there. And how long it will be to right it is anyone's guess
But that doesn’t represent network fragility. When there is a crisis no airline has immediate options sitting on the tarmac. Sure, the downgrade is annoying but at least the key service is being provided to those passengers. And you can’t place the blame at the feet for Qantas for a passenger becoming so aggressive that they needed the help of other passengers to subdue him.
Other airlines around the world have the relative luxury of having parallel services in high population areas that can absorb this. We don’t have that luxury here. The ‘network fragility’ is more a product of a much smaller market that can’t absorb the impact so readily.
Sure, i’d be put out as a passenger. I get that. But at the moment we’re facing pilot shortage issues, new plane delivery delays, amongst other issues. I’m not inclined to burn my QFF card just yet.
 
But that doesn’t represent network fragility. When there is a crisis no airline has immediate options sitting on the tarmac. Sure, the downgrade is annoying but at least the key service is being provided to those passengers. And you can’t place the blame at the feet for Qantas for a passenger becoming so aggressive that they needed the help of other passengers to subdue him.
Other airlines around the world have the relative luxury of having parallel services in high population areas that can absorb this. We don’t have that luxury here. The ‘network fragility’ is more a product of a much smaller market that can’t absorb the impact so readily.
Sure, i’d be put out as a passenger. I get that. But at the moment we’re facing pilot shortage issues, new plane delivery delays, amongst other issues. I’m not inclined to burn my QFF card just yet.

What do you call it if not fragile? One small turnback and wham - min 8 x flights rooted. You either deal with the fall out or make contingency plans. If the option is to take the fallout then so be it. I dont blame Qantas for the original issue, but I dont applaud their risk assessment mitigation options as being robust. You say that its a nature of our market, being the fact we have to put up with it, but then don't go charging a significant premium margin on your service if you arent able to cope. The compo better be good, but dont hold your breath.
 
They cant have a spare plane just sitting around in case a passenger goes rogue, the economics of that would be ridiculous. Theyre doing what they can to get things back on track with as little overall disruption as possible. Sure, a 737 isnt a Dreamliner but they dont promise you a certain plane or seat type, just that they will get you from A to B.
 
What do you call it if not fragile? One small turnback and wham - min 8 x flights rooted. You either deal with the fall out or make contingency plans. If the option is to take the fallout then so be it. I dont blame Qantas for the original issue, but I dont applaud their risk assessment mitigation options as being robust. You say that its a nature of our market, being the fact we have to put up with it, but then don't go charging a significant premium margin on your service if you arent able to cope. The compo better be good, but dont hold your breath.

I am not sure what you expect here? That Qantas have on standby aircraft at every single port they service? They charge a margin because they run a very safe airline and they pay their crew at Aussie standards. All airlines are exposed to these non-usual events. And as others have posted, this is a route without a zillion alternative flights.

As for "compo", I know the pax all suffered. But so did the airline! A particular pax turned out to be a nutter. Hardly the fault of QF. On the contrary, I find great comfort that QF makes decisions such as this (even though it costs them a lot) that are sheerly in the interests of the safety of the plane, crew, and passengers.
 
One small turnback and wham - min 8 x flights rooted. You either deal with the fall out or make contingency plans.
What they did (cut 787 MEL-LHR flight at PER, replace domestic leg with 737/A330) is the contingency plan. That allows them to recover about 10 hours of delays.
That would be enough to recover both MEL-US and AU-LHR flights with minimal delays. However, they were still recovering from the technical delay from a couple of days prior, as well as having to deal with crew hour limits and curfew/noise limits at LHR.

Australia just doesn't have the market to maintain a network that can easily absorb disruption. MEL-xPER-LHR (1 flight/day) and MEL-LAX (2-3 flights/day) isn't like TYO-LAX with 7 daily flights or LHR-NYC with flights nearly every hour.
 
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